The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Could Maggie have taken up a Coin?
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on February 11, 2018, 05:48:36 PM ---I'm not sure how well Namshiel would fit -- given what we know about the Denarian naming scheme, he seems like one who's more in control than his host. Maggie seems more willful than that, so I don't see her getting along very well with Namshiel.
Rosanna's coin, it's harder to say. She does seem like someone who's been in the game with the coin for a while, so it would depend on just when Margaret was going around with Nicodemus; by default, it would have to be before she took up with Lord Raith, since that seems to be the very last thing before she gave up on that life. So that's 30+ years in the past.
We don't know enough about Rosanna to make a yay or nay of it, unfortunately.
Lasciel still makes the most sense to me, though yes, it is odd that Nicodemus wouldn't have used that information. Lasciel did hide quite a bit from Harry, and in her last conversation she seems to imply she knows a lot more about Maggie Sr. than she'd previously indicated. In fact, that she knows what Maggie was thinking when she left Lord Raith.
--- End quote ---
For Rosanna, we know that she had her coin at least 10 years before Sanya showed up as a KotC in DM. He was mid-twenties then, and he took up the coin at sixteen, and had it for five years.
Rosanna could have taken it up right after Margaret. With Harry being 28 in DM, plus 2 years with Malcolm, plus 5 years (minimum) with Raith (given that Thomas was about 5 when she left), that's at least 35 years Rosanna could have had it.
By comparison, the temptress would have spent years in Harry's head without ever tempting him with the thing he wanted more than anything: a connection to his mother.
Lash could have replayed memories of Margaret's. She could have shared stories about the two working together, sometimes even against Nico (because we know they historically don't work together) to make a better world. And she could have reassured him that he could set the coin aside just like she must have done, pointing out that (with Chauncey's previous statement reinforcing) Margaret didn't lose herself or her soul by bearing the coin for a time.
Combine that with the knowledge that Sanya was a redeemed bearer, and Harry would have been sorely tempted to take up a power that he knew he could give up when he wanted, and use it to do good things like his mother had, all while gaining insight into her and her life.
Mr. Death:
All good points.
Lasciel is subtle -- very subtle. And given Harry's distrust of her already, I could see her easing into it as much as possible to avoid scaring him off.
Yes, memories of his mother are among the things Harry wants the most -- but recall what happens when Vaderung gives Harry exactly what he wants. Harry is instantly suspicious about getting what he wants.
If Lasciel offered that to Harry too soon, Harry would reject it as too good to be true -- exactly like he does with Chauncy or Thomas.
Especially with Lasciel, he'd figure it was a way -- a particularly cruel way -- to try and get him to get his guard down, and he'd probably redouble his efforts to lock her out.
Harry's mother is a sensitive subject with him, so unless Harry does trust Lash already, telling too much about Maggie Sr. runs a risk of just pissing Harry off.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on February 11, 2018, 06:18:54 PM ---All good points.
Lasciel is subtle -- very subtle. And given Harry's distrust of her already, I could see her easing into it as much as possible to avoid scaring him off.
Yes, memories of his mother are among the things Harry wants the most -- but recall what happens when Vaderung gives Harry exactly what he wants. Harry is instantly suspicious about getting what he wants.
If Lasciel offered that to Harry too soon, Harry would reject it as too good to be true -- exactly like he does with Chauncy or Thomas.
Especially with Lasciel, he'd figure it was a way -- a particularly cruel way -- to try and get him to get his guard down, and he'd probably redouble his efforts to lock her out.
Harry's mother is a sensitive subject with him, so unless Harry does trust Lash already, telling too much about Maggie Sr. runs a risk of just pissing Harry off.
--- End quote ---
He's also got a weakness for helping women and bucking convention. If she had presented herself as no friend of Nico's (supported by what he was told by people he trusts) who had worked with his mother as equals to rebel against a flawed system and do the right thing, he'd have eaten it up. Especially if she'd offered the memories for free.
The important thing to remember about Thomas and Vadderung is that he met them with initial skepticism, but ultimately accepted both because they were honest with him. Lasciel, as the ultimate Temptress, should have had more in her repertoire than offering mind-sex and power. Some deft deceptive honesty would have gone a lot farther with Harry than lies.
Since she didn't use any of that, in the several years she had with him, it suggests she didn't have that option.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on February 11, 2018, 07:01:06 PM ---Since she didn't use any of that, in the several years she had with him, it suggests she didn't have that option.
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Harry never fully accepted the Coin. He buried it. This may have limited Lasciel's influence quite a lot.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: groinkick on February 11, 2018, 07:07:31 PM ---Harry never fully accepted the Coin. He buried it. This may have limited Lasciel's influence quite a lot.
--- End quote ---
WoJ is that Lasciel knew everything Lash did. There was at least a one way communication between them. Lash knew extinct languages. She could give Harry access to hellfire.
But even if Lash couldn't get anything from Lasciel after the coin was sealed away, she'd still know what she needed to be that point. She could perceive his mind and read his memory. She could process things at the speed of thought. She had a couple hours to understand him and download everything relevant before he finished in the subbasement.
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