The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Cold Days: Attack on Demonreach

(1/10) > >>

raidem:
I'm in an argument over on Discord with my nemesis. :)

Let's lay the foundation.

--- Quote ---Then I saw the dissonance appear. Bob had chosen to show it as a sullen red light that began to pulse lightly at the westernmost edges of the great design. It began as something faint, but then, like an oncoming headache, started to throb into something larger and more noticeable. Where scarlet and blue light touched, there were ugly flares of energy-flares that I had been sensing ever since I'd gotten to the island. Before long, that scarlet pulse had spread to half the island, and then, abruptly, the screen went white.
Text at the bottom read, NOVEMBER 1.
"By tomorrow," I said. "Super. But I still don't see what is wrong, Bob."
"Energy hits it," Bob said. "A directed burst of energy, a whole lot of it. It unravels the whole containment spell Merlin laid down and triggers the fail-safe."
"FIRE," rumbled Demonreach.
"I figured that one out, thanks," I said. "But nothing has actually happened to the spells yet?"
"Nope," said Bob. "That tension that's building? It's . . . Well, think of it as cause and effect, only backward."
"What the island is experiencing now is the echo of the moment that burst of energy strikes it," Bob said. "Only instead of the echo happening after, it's happening first."
I stopped and thought. "You're telling me that the reason the island is about to blow up is . . . because it's about to blow up?"
Bob sighed. "Someone hits the island with energy, Harry. But they've figured out how Merlin put this place together. They aren't attacking it in three dimensions. They're attacking in four. They're sending power through time as well as through space."
"So . . . I have to stop them from attacking the island tomorrow?"
"No," Bob said, exasperated. "You have to stop them from attacking whenever it is that they actually attack."
"Uh . . ."

--- End quote ---

--- Quote ---"Look, the rock they're throwing hits tomorrow," Bob said. "But you have to stop them from throwing it at whatever point they're standing when they throw it."
"Oh," I said, blinking. "I get that."
Bob turned to look at Demonreach. "Do you see what I have to work with here? I had to take that down to throwing a rock before it got through."
"HIS UNDERSTANDING IS LIMITED," Demonreach agreed.
--- End quote ---

First the definition
I stipulated 'cosmic' Halloween to be defined as the time in which the conjunction exists whereby immortals are made mortal.

General impression:
I argue the attacks can be entirely within cosmic Halloween.

2:19 PM] -EG-: They're throwing it from the barges. It builds up and hits the next day. Halloween no longer applies, stuff in the Well goes free.

EG's argument is that the Demonreach attack rock doesn't hit until November 1st (but post Halloween) per the white screen with it labeled at bottom and per Bob "Look, the rock they're throwing hits tomorrow."
The attack may be thrown when the barge hits but the rock doesn't hit until November 1st.
He is dead set that because we see a white screen labeled November 1st, that means whatever event it signifies must hit not on halloween but Nov 1st.
Therefore there are no mantles to be gobbled up as the immortals aren't destroyed but set free to cause huge disorder, etc.

My arguments are this.
Bob showed us a model isn't completely accurate.
Harry took November 1st to mean 'by tomorrow" not necessarily tomorrow.
I pointed to

--- Quote ---So . . . I have to stop them from attacking the island tomorrow?"
"No," Bob said, exasperated. "You have to stop them from attacking whenever it is that they actually attack.
--- End quote ---
.
I then point to Vadderung's

--- Quote ---“Meaning that the echoes caused by the temporal event are proportionately greater than the span of time that was bridged,” he said. “Had the attack been launched from a century ago, or hence, the echoes of it would have begun far, far in advance of the event—centuries ago. These echoes have appeared only within the past few days. I would guess, roughly, that the attack must originate only hours from the actual, real-time occurrence.” “Which is tomorrow,” I said. “So it’s happening sometime today or sometime tomorrow.” “Most likely not tomorrow,” Vadderung said. “Altering one’s past is more than mildly difficult.”
--- End quote ---

Other issues at play
I argued that some/most prisoners within Demonreach have mantles.  He argued they don't have them.
I argued that the banefire event would be on Halloween not on Nov 1st so as to kill the prisoners.  I'd allow however that the energy could be gobbled up. He is pretty steadfast about Nov 1st as shown by model being accurate depiction of what would occur.

raidem:
So I argued that the barge, with the ritual on it, landing on the shore of Demonreach would be the "attack" that would cause "dissonance to appear" at the westernmost edges of the great design.  He argued it wouldn't take effect until Nov 1st as he previously stated per Bob 'hit tomorrow' and label Nov 1st.

What is the verdict.  Your thoughts on the matter of the attack on Demonreach.

Some of the summation of my arguments:
So. To sum up arguments so far.
[3:29 PM] raidem: I've argued that some, many of the prisoners in Demonreach have mantles/power.
[3:30 PM] raidem: That this/these mantles/powers would be released in destruction of Demonreach on cosmic Halloween.(edited)
[3:30 PM] raidem: That consumers (Outsiders, Insider) could take advantage of these resources by 'gobbling' them up.
[3:32 PM] raidem: I argue that Harry may have killed HWWBefore and we saw a 'mantlelike' essence retreat toward the retreating Outside army.
[3:33 PM] raidem: I argued that there was a difference, in some end result, between Harry killing HWWB and HWWBefore.  That killing HWWBefore on Halloween with Winter and Soulfire did something more than what occurred when he was just 16.
[3:35 PM] raidem: I argued that human ideas can create mantles. And that Jim has a liberal definition of the same word 'mantle.'
[3:36 PM] raidem: I argued that the white screen depicted by Bob is 'by tomorrow' not strictly November 1st. (cosmic Halloween would still be enforced)(edited)
[3:38 PM] raidem: I now say if on November 1st and not cosmic Halloween then the last option is what @-EG- suggests would take place, that of freeing the prisoners

Cozarkian:
Cutting to the chase, your problem is the failure to realize that Nov. 1 is still Halloween. Halloween lasts until sunrise.

raidem:
Not really because I called it 'cosmic' Halloween so we stipulated that the conjunction would first cease to exist. He still argued it would hit post 'cosmic' Halloween on Nov 1st.

Bob had mentioned Harry would have until the first natural birdsong.

I did in fact bring up the wards that Mab, Harry and allies were confined behind.

I just found this so this is new to the argument. It's the birdsong.


--- Quote ---The rest of the night passed without anyone getting killed. I sat down with my back against the outside wall of the cottage, to keep an eye on my “guests” down the hill, but when I blinked a few seconds later, my eyes stuck shut, and then didn’t open again until I heard, distantly, a bird twittering. Footsteps came crunching up the hill, and I opened my eyes to see Kringle approaching.
--- End quote ---

That bird signaled the end of 'cosmic' Halloween.

peregrine:
Other than "It's a thing that happened," what evidence do you have that the bird signaled the end of Halloween?

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page