The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Marcone's heritage
jonas:
--- Quote from: Quantus on January 24, 2018, 06:07:03 PM ---Side Question: Assuming Harry is correct and KotC do in fact need some Royal Lineage, does it need to be "Old Blood", as in some Inherited trait? Could a modern King(pin?) arise in a single generation? Would non-human 'Kingdoms' like the White Court count, even if /they/ think of themselves and ruling/cultivation the human population?
--- End quote ---
I think it requires royal lineage from the time King was considered a divine authoritive right in itself. It was a 'mantle' of power in the oldest sense. The blood descendants of this time inherited this ability to take up said authority... course said descendants are now very wide spread indeed. But King lineages of old were actively blessed when taking up authority, so idk if modern 'Pin's would count.
Although again, it might also be relative to the practitioner's bloodlines, can 't shake the 3 kings/Magi connection.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Quantus on January 24, 2018, 06:07:03 PM ---Side Question: Assuming Harry is correct and KotC do in fact need some Royal Lineage, does it need to be "Old Blood", as in some Inherited trait? Could a modern King(pin?) arise in a single generation? Would non-human 'Kingdoms' like the White Court count, even if /they/ think of themselves and ruling/cultivation the human population?
--- End quote ---
The kingship, the tradition, the story must be compatible with the knighthood.
Not the real history maybe because that would exclude that war criminal Charlemagne but the myth. Aragorn, Arthur, ....
In the end the dresdenverse is all about story.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 24, 2018, 06:53:01 PM ---The kingship, the tradition, the story must be compatible with the knighthood.
Not the real history maybe because that would exclude that war criminal Charlemagne but the myth. Aragorn, Arthur, ....
In the end the dresdenverse is all about story.
--- End quote ---
Hmm, lets chase that thought.
Two questions:
1) To what degree does this change with Changing times and popular belief/morality? Assuming that such an image that arises form the global population would work similar to how Santa Clause can still be a sword-wielding bad-ass rather than a kindly toymaker.
2)To what degree does the subjectivity, especially in conflicting perspectives on opposite sides of a War, impact this role? I mean, The Crusades theoretically had the support of Heaven (in a world where heaven gets involved). Similarly, in RL Vlad the Impaler is a nation hero in his home nation, but a literal Monster by popular myth.
Keeping in mind that the power of the Swords are not like the faux-shroud or anything similar, since they are acting as a direct conduit for TWG him/her/itself to communicate and empower a mortal, but (per Day One) is doing it personally and directly.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: Quantus on January 24, 2018, 07:05:52 PM ---Hmm, lets chase that thought.
Two questions:
1) To what degree does this change with Changing times and popular belief/morality? Assuming that such an image that arises form the global population would work similar to how Santa Clause can still be a sword-wielding bad-ass rather than a kindly toymaker.
--- End quote ---
We now have sir Butters.
Everything changes even immortals, ask mother Summer, but it changes slowly.
--- Quote ---2)To what degree does the subjectivity, especially in conflicting perspectives on opposite sides of a War, impact this role? I mean, The Crusades theoretically had the support of Heaven (in a world where heaven gets involved). Similarly, in RL Vlad the Impaler is a nation hero in his home nation, but a literal Monster by popular myth.
--- End quote ---
If the scion is of suitable knightly material....
--- Quote ---Keeping in mind that the power of the Swords are not like the faux-shroud or anything similar, since they are acting as a direct conduit for TWG him/her/itself to communicate and empower a mortal, but (per Day One) is doing it personally and directly.
--- End quote ---
Be it so but they are clearly shown to conform to human stories, the story does matter.
And I am not convinced there is a real kwalitative difference between twg and other gods like the hindu pantheon. Human story and belief is what they need to express themselves here and it clearly describes how they express themselves here.
--- Quote ---Michael shrugged and took a thoughtful sip of beer. “The Grail is the most powerful symbol of God’s love and sorrow on the face of the earth, Harry. I don’t see how he could use it to do harm—but if Nicodemus sacrificed so much to acquire it, I suspect that he does.”
--- End quote ---
It is still a symbol. The power of the grail can be just the focuused power all those people have invested in that story. Just like the fake only better.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 24, 2018, 07:44:08 PM ---We now have sir Butters.
Everything changes even immortals, ask mother Summer, but it changes slowly.
--- End quote ---
I agree with the general statement but I dont think I see how it applies here?
--- Quote ---If the scion is of suitable knightly material....
--- End quote ---
By which definition of "suitable" is my point, I guess.
--- Quote ---Be it so but they are clearly shown to conform to human stories, the story does matter.
--- End quote ---
When? I cant think of a single example of this relating to the swords.
--- Quote ---And I am not convinced there is a real kwalitative difference between twg and other gods like the hindu pantheon. Human story and belief is what they need to express themselves here and it clearly describes how they express themselves here.
--- End quote ---
It is still a symbol. The power of the grail can be just the focuused power all those people have invested in that story. Just like the fake only better.
[/quote]Is it? I mean, there is no christian tradition of Magic Swords, and none of the "known" legends of the swords include that part or any real religious aspects, and at least one predates the Crucifixion itself. Sure, there is a lot of popular belief in the Arthurian Legends, and could indirectly feed Amoracchius via that, but I think Id argue that for "Fake" power to accumulate like that it would need to actually BE known, and widely, rather than secret knowledge known to only a few
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