The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Marcone's heritage
peregrine:
--- Quote from: Arjan on January 21, 2018, 06:21:47 PM ---Sure but it is only important if you have a substantial claim according to the inheritance laws of the culture of the person you claim as your ancestor.
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Is it though. Do you think that Michael is the first son of the first son of etc... of Charlemagne? Or Sanya for Saladin? For the swords, I don't think it takes anything more than some small amount of lineage to work, so, if it makes any kind of difference for Marcone, why would it be any different? He's certainly not claiming any sort of divine right to rule a specific kingdom based on his bloodline, he's more like a random mercenary who sets up shop based on right of the sword.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: peregrine on January 21, 2018, 08:18:18 PM ---Is it though. Do you think that Michael is the first son of the first son of etc... of Charlemagne? Or Sanya for Saladin? For the swords, I don't think it takes anything more than some small amount of lineage to work, so, if it makes any kind of difference for Marcone, why would it be any different? He's certainly not claiming any sort of divine right to rule a specific kingdom based on his bloodline, he's more like a random mercenary who sets up shop based on right of the sword.
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In the end it is about human beliefs and the belief in royal bloodlines is a belief royal dynasties promoted in the past for obvious reasons but some people really believe it even in the real world. It is about the claim of inheritance, the right of kingship and the responsibilities it brings. That belief has power in the dresdenverse.
This is not about who shares dna, illegitimate children rarely apply, but about family tree which seldom includes all ancestors but important families in the past always wanted a family tree with important ancestors to brag about and they did want it badly enough to fake it if necessary.
peregrine:
But again, do you think that Michael is in the direct, strongest lineage from Charlemagne? That out of the many millions of people, Michael is the one with the most "worthy" family tree? Because I don't, we've not seen anything to suggest it.
Especially since that's an effectively dead noble family now. Hell, Shiro is a descendant of the "last" king of Okinawa, which means there are no more kings of Okinawa. And yet, that counts for the swords. I mean, hell, the Holy Roman Emperor was once given to a guy whose "Right" was that he was the great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson of a previous Emperor. And he sat on the throne. So I honestly don't think that you need a strong, holds up in court, lineage. Just that one bit of Royal Blood, that, if you look hard enough, we almost all have.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: peregrine on January 21, 2018, 10:44:57 PM ---But again, do you think that Michael is in the direct, strongest lineage from Charlemagne? That out of the many millions of people, Michael is the one with the most "worthy" family tree? Because I don't, we've not seen anything to suggest it.
Especially since that's an effectively dead noble family now. Hell, Shiro is a descendant of the "last" king of Okinawa, which means there are no more kings of Okinawa. And yet, that counts for the swords. I mean, hell, the Holy Roman Emperor was once given to a guy whose "Right" was that he was the great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandson of a previous Emperor. And he sat on the throne. So I honestly don't think that you need a strong, holds up in court, lineage. Just that one bit of Royal Blood, that, if you look hard enough, we almost all have.
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Depends on how much a family spreads... If you have parents having few children, and they have few children, and they have few children.... The blood line really won't spread that much. Especially if we are talking about say one man who's of importance but not his siblings, or cousins, and it's from that man's direct connection. Also there may be outside forces killing off that blood line... Like Shiro being the last descendant of the king of Okinawa... Michael and his family may be the last of that particular bloodline as well.
peregrine:
The thing is, Shiro isn't the last descendant of the king of Okinawa. He's a descendant of the last king of Okinawa. One of, presumably, many. Michael, being the last descendant of Charlemagne is incredibly unlikely, because effectively everyone of European heritage is descended from him, the dude had 60 great grand kids. Royal families don't just have one or two kids, generally.
And, like the last king of Okinawa, many of those royal titles have ceased to be. Even if you can prove your direct lineage, you show up to Normandy saying you're the Nth descendant of Robert II, they'll say that's very nice, and then arrest you if you try to take over the government.
Maybe it's true that the Knights are all in direct line for whichever throne. Possibly. But that would mean that Michael, who happens to live in Chicago, AND Murphy AND Susan AND Butters are all secretly the One True Heir. That there are no other better claimants to four different thrones, and also they all happen to be buddies with Harry. Oh, and Harry himself. And that's only if he gets it through Malcolm, because otherwise Thomas would be the one who gets it, being older.
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