White Court Anit-Love and Blood Rites

[Avernite]

The  love between Thomas and Justine is true love, that is why he could not touch her until she had physical sex with someone else..  Remember she invited a gay woman friend at the end of Ghost Story?  Since though she might be mildly bi-sexual, she isn't gay, so the gay sex counts to break the true love lock that prevented Thomas from touching her and at the same time in their minds at least since she isn't gay stayed faithful.

Love tokens like a wedding ring or a rose can burn if they were exchanged in true love.   It's complicated, the best theory I
can think of is the Hunger Demon feeds on carnal lust and the "hormones/emotions" that calls forth, but true love is on a higher level...  Kind of like getting too near the sun,  the Hunger Demon feeds on the light and warmth until death of the victim.   Think of true love itself as the sun, touch it and you burn up.

The weird thing is we never seem to hear about any other love than the romantic kind sufficing. Sure, the soul-soul contact is pretty intense during sex, but so presumably is that during breastfeeding, yet there's no general trend of virgins (whose last extremely intimate contact would often be with someone who loved them) being protected. Note trend, not saying it's a total certainty.

So there seems to be something else going on. Something deeper, more specific, than just intimacy backed by love.

I am running on thin ice, obviously, but an attempt: Romantic love is a kind of ongoing sharing of soul between equals. Where a parent's love might seem to be a way to 'feed' the child's soul without quite the same in reverse, a romantic love is a bi-directional feed. And as the hunger demon attempts to feed on the soul, the soul is not really just there, but also elsewhere (namely with the loved one). The demon tries to munch anyway and as a result is halfway ripped from the body of the vampire, even when the other lover is close, because it's a metaphysical rather than physical distance. The demon could eat on, but it would be permanently dislocated and the vampire-body will die, leaving the demon untethered and forced to return to the NN, before it can do permanent damage to the lovers (after all, a WCV can feed quite deeply without killing).

[wardenferry419]

Maybe it has to do with the rarity of romantic love.

[Ananda]

As someone who believes in neither uppercase Love or souls, it’s difficult to theorise. I’ve never looked too deeply at this stuff because they’re just a bit of fantasy facade. In context of a magic world with all this stuff, logic and rational thought seems like a fruitless venture, like discussing why leprechauns keep their gold in a pot instead of a trunk or a magic sack.

When I read these love passages with the burning and all, I just figure it works as described currently because the story currently requires it to do so. Like the pseudo science in Star Trek.

[Arjan]

Maybe it has to do with the rarity of romantic love.

Probably with the myth and stories about romantic love. There is a lot of believe invested here and that is power.

[Avernite]

Probably with the myth and stories about romantic love. There is a lot of believe invested here and that is power.

And not in motherly love?

I suspect if you make a fair summation it's below romantic love in mythical intensity, but we're looking for a difference in not just degree.

[wardenferry419]

I am guessing the love has to be rare because if it was common, like parental love, than the WCV would starve.

[Ananda]

I am guessing the love has to be rare because if it was common, like parental love, than the WCV would starve.

Romantic love just biochemical to induce receptivity to reproduction. Parental love is biochemical to induce that the offspring survives. Yes, we’ve embellished this behaviour as our systems became more sophisticated, but the biochemical is the core of it. Given the body produces chemicals to induce the love experience, could certain chemicals be a repellent to the white court? Could this be simulated by eating chocolate?  Are the other white court who thrive on fear, etc. repelled by this same thing? Why *do* those rascally leprechauns insist on keeping gold in pots as opposed to classic chests or flashier magic bags?

[Arjan]

Romantic love just biochemical to induce receptivity to reproduction. Parental love is biochemical to induce that the offspring survives. Yes, we’ve embellished this behaviour as our systems became more sophisticated, but the biochemical is the core of it. Given the body produces chemicals to induce the love experience, could certain chemicals be a repellent to the white court? Could this be simulated by eating chocolate?  Are the other white court who thrive on fear, etc. repelled by this same thing? Why *do* those rascally leprechauns insist on keeping gold in pots as opposed to classic chests or flashier magic bags?

Because ignore the biological explanations we are in a magical world. Leprechauns store pots of gold because that is expected from them by their story. How the supernatural behaves is strongly influenced by what humans tell each other about it.

[Ananda]

Because ignore the biological explanations we are in a magical world. Leprechauns store pots of gold because that is expected from them by their story. How the supernatural behaves is strongly influenced by what humans tell each other about it.

I was providing a hybrid approach. Even magic systems have to have some basis in logic and reality. Also, do the white court who consume pain, fear, etc. react to “Love” as do the Lara Clan? Or, do they react to some twisted mirror version of their preferred dinner?

Speaking of logic, yours seems a bit circular in regards to the Great Leprechaun Conundrum of 2018. You can’t say they use pots because people expect pots and people expect pots because they use pots. That doesn’t work. Also, is your statement about “how the supernatural behaves” meant to be regarding leprechauns in the DF universe or just a general declaration? 

Personally, I think they use pots so they can cook and eat those they find seeking their treasure.

[Arjan]

Oh they will use something else when humans start to tell different stories, humans change their stories over time and that is how even immortals change. That is how Odin became kringle.

White court vampires do not feed on love, they feed on lust. In real life lust is part of love, love is just more complete, but in romantic tales they are opposing forces the one noble and high and the other base and profane and so on. It makes sense that romantic love for your true partner defeats the base lust for the vampire.

The vampire stands for adultery and romantic love stops you from doing it.

[Ananda]

Oh they will use something else when humans start to tell different stories, humans change their stories over time and that is how even immortals change. That is how Odin became kringle.

White court vampires do not feed on love, they feed on lust. In real life lust is part of love, love is just more complete, but in romantic tales they are opposing forces the one noble and high and the other base and profane and so on. It makes sense that romantic love for your true partner defeats the base lust for the vampire.

The vampire stands for adultery and romantic love stops you from doing it.

I think we're talking passed each other as this doesn't answer anything I asked and answers questions I didn't ask and already knew the DF answers to. Need me to reword my previous post?

[Arjan]

I think we're talking passed each other as this doesn't answer anything I asked and answers questions I didn't ask and already knew the DF answers to. Need me to reword my previous post?

We might have lost each other somewhere.

I think the white court vulnerability to real love, for those that feed on lust that is, is much like the black courts vulnerability to holy symbols. It is part of their story and nothing else. It is there because humans believe it should be there and all supernaturals depend on human stories to express themselves in the real world, the reason Mab values that Grimm book so much. If there is another logic to it than that logic just strengthens the story. That is my take on both the why and the how.

[Quantus]

Negligible, she has a permanent scar from it, not from trying to feed. Thomas feed on Justine and he loves her and it doesn't permanently scar him. It twas the object as a symbolic talisman, she's not going to feed on an object.
*apparently that's not what you said then?

I think the logic here would be that if she were in the process of feeding, and thus had lowered her defenses (or activated her Hunger, if you prefer) then she'd become vulnerable to the Ring during that window. 

Cant speak to why she was unable to heal the Ring Scar but able to heal the True Love burned lips from Harry. 

[Arjan]

I think the logic here would be that if she were in the process of feeding, and thus had lowered her defenses (or activated her Hunger, if you prefer) then she'd become vulnerable to the Ring during that window. 

Cant speak to why she was unable to heal the Ring Scar but able to heal the True Love burned lips from Harry.

Lips heal fast and scar little, the wounds are painful though.

[Quantus]

Lips heal fast and scar little, the wounds are painful though.

Simple and direct answer, I like it.  Does that work when we're talking about supernatural healing?  I guess if the Catch is inhibiting their supernatural healing the normal human-side healing might still maintain it's patterns and relative capabilities.