The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Who is the most evil character in the Dresdenverse?
Arjan:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on December 04, 2017, 08:11:23 PM ---Evil's only a problem that way if you assume the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent God. We have no confirmation that the White God in the DV fits these criteria.
--- End quote ---
MSTR is omnipotent, omniscient but not omnibenevolent of course. Cats are not.
Jim's handling of free will is however much influenced by those who try to explain evil with free will.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: groinkick on December 04, 2017, 08:32:52 PM ---In the Dresdenverse you absolutely can, as the Angels have shown. It's about Choice. If you could do no wrong, if you could not say "no" to good, then you are not a free being, you're a robot, a slave. The only way for you to have free will is to be able to say "no" to good. It is freedom vs peace. Within the Dresdenverse the Angels job is to ensure freedom to choose from those who would deny that Choice. In a place where freedom exists, evil will happen.
--- End quote ---
You can explain some evil with free will of course but can you explain all evil with free will? If you can imagine a better world with the same amound of free will then answer is clearly no.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Arjan on December 04, 2017, 08:46:30 PM ---MSTR is omnipotent, omniscient but not omnibenevolent of course. Cats are not.
Jim's handling of free will is however much influenced by those who try to explain evil with free will.
--- End quote ---
Flip it to the other side of the coin. In the Dresdenverse TWG is simply another deity created from some ritual or worship, and is not omnipotent... Then evil and good do not exist but are instead falsely created beliefs, fantasies.... Simple human constructs. Therefor no action done is actually evil, it simply is. Evil, and good would be simple illusions of human creation much like superstition.
Arjan:
--- Quote from: groinkick on December 04, 2017, 08:52:19 PM ---Flip it to the other side of the coin. In the Dresdenverse TWG is simply another deity created from some ritual or worship, and is not omnipotent... Then evil and good do not exist but are instead falsely created beliefs, fantasies.... Simple human constructs. Therefor no action done is actually evil, it simply is. Evil, and good would be simple illusions of human creation much like superstition.
--- End quote ---
Dostoyevski?
There are several faults in this logic. First whether something is a human or a godly creation you can always say that it simply is. Illusionary or real doesn't matter, just call reality an illusion as well. You can render everything unimportant that way even eternal torture or bliss in hell or heaven. It just is, it has no meaning. God made it, so what? God just is.
Or do good and evil just have meaning because god commanded it so and would they lose meaning with the power of that god? Then good and evil have no meaning at all.
Or the other way round you don't need an almighty god to think some things are important. People did that for millenia with not almighty gods or none. We see a lot of things in the dresdenverse Through Harry who is heavily influenced by christianity and lives in a christian country but the same world would probably look radically different but strangely the same through Gards eyes.
Furthermore everything that is just superstition is real in the dresdenverse. Human stories are real in some way. So good and evil are also true because they are human stories. This is a story driven universe.
Good and Evil have meaning if they tell us how people can live together.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Arjan on December 04, 2017, 09:29:33 PM ---We see a lot of things in the dresdenverse Through Harry who is heavily influenced by christianity and lives in a christian country but the same world would probably look radically different but strangely the same through Gards eyes.
--- End quote ---
One of the things that is really solidly in both the Norse sagas and as I understand it contemporary Norse religion is that Odin has no qualms at all about killing humans because they have souls and will therefore go on to some afterlife or other, whereas he will go to great lengths not to kill entities without a soul because that would mean ending them forever. I would really like to see this come up in the DV.
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