The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection

Mab/Murphy Ironies

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Ananda:

--- Quote from: jonas on October 15, 2017, 04:02:08 AM ---One day, ONE DAY, he will no longer have any more of his original storyline to protect and maybe then he'll open up on all those things short sighted people missed. The breadth and depth of combining pop culture and mythologies from across the globe would get it a pass even if it wasn't magnificently layered and set up. A 20 book preplanned series that actually made it to fruition in the main stream? That gives it so much bona fides.
fyi- an maybe a curator would know where it originally came from, because I first heard it from Serack, Jim intentionally uses words to cross connect idea's. Someone did a thread on the blackmagic/ N connection words iirc.

--- End quote ---
I didn’t say the story was bad, but rather that Butcher is not a great writer. The first few books amaze me in that they got published at all given how bad they are. His writing has improved over the years, but that’s not saying they are *good* now. The story is fun, but it’s not well written. There is a difference between an entertaining story and good writing. Butcher has an entertaining story in the Dresden Files and that’s why I buy the books despite the writing. (Though, if not for a friend insisting that the story was worth trudging through the first books, I would have stopped pretty early in book one.)

On the other hand, his new series, The Windlass or whatnot, was both poorly written and formulaic and I found that I could barely finish it. I will not buy the next one.

I’ll be incredibly surprised if your theory regarding the two Ms is true, however. Still, we’ll  have to wait till 2030something to find out.

Cozarkian:

--- Quote from: raidem on October 14, 2017, 09:30:43 PM ---Bah, can someone help me find the WOJ that Mab wasn't always so big :).  I distinctly remember Jim stating something like that with a smiley alluding to Mab being a dew drop faerie, or at least something consistent with Shakespeare, at least in humor.  I liked to take it as Jim hinting at Murphy being Tiny.

--- End quote ---

I believe it was responding to a question about Toot growing.

Talby16:
I think the connections are tenuous. I prefer Murphy and Mab as separate beings who share some similarities. I do promise to kneel and pay respect if you are correct at the end (for whatever that is worth).

raidem:
Alright, now I'll try to argue against it, or at least pose potential hurdles to overcome.
First off, why would Murphy name her children Maeve and Sarissa knowing their fate.  Or, did she already name them that, so in one reality/alternate reality it's set in stone.
Second, does Maeve or Sarissa look similar to Murphy?  Surely genetics would play a part even if the mantle had shaped Murphy into Mab's appearance. Or do Maeve and Sarissa simply look like Mab, so the genetics actually get changed to Mab genetics.
Third, WOJ has it that Mab and Titania are actual twin sisters. (I can propose a set of conditions that fulfill the requirements here but it requires two Murphy's from two alternate realities and Harry's joke to Murphy about a evil twin)
Fourth, It's likely someone would know Mab's identity in Faerie, particularly Lea, who rose to power with her.  So, throughout the series, Lea would be fully aware of Murphy's fate.  And most certainly would Vadderung, and the other highest powers.  I'd argue that Nic/Anduriel does too because Mab, supposedly our Mab, had to make a great many deals (one with Nic) in her takeover of the defense at the Outergates. It would put a new spin on things with Nic/Murphy and Nic/Mab faceoff during SkinGame.  Mac also has history with Mab, so its possible when Mac was IN, he was in a position to know. (See SG and greetings. See Murphy face off against Tiny in Small Favor: Mac is impressed and gives them REAL mead.) I'd estimate that the Gatekeeper knows, he has been their the longest, and is the eldest of the wizards.  )
Fifth, Any time plots worth their salt would try to aim at undercutting Murphy's ascension to Mab.  Though, if true, it would be fairly difficult to disestablish that once it had occurred 1000+ years ago.
Sixth, Murphy would need to time travel back 1000+ years ago, most likely with Harry. They would have to participate in events and overturn historical inertia.  Murphy would need to supplant a Winter Lady.  She would need some time and team up with Lea.  She would then given an event that would take out both Winter and Summer Queens ascend to Mab.  This event would coincide with the last time things got off/awful in the wizarding world. Given this, a book would probably need to revisit around the Battle of Hastings, perhaps around the time where Merlin created Demonreach at one of the points in time.  Team Good launches counter to Team Bad at this point in time which gives Team Good license to time travel to then and affect change.

raidem:
Most importantly, the MOTHERS would know.  Though they always are giving hints about being able to keep oneself.  Harry thinks they are talking about him, or we think maybe about Molly, but are they talking about Murphy mantled as Mab.  They say a great many things with maximum ambiguity.


--- Quote ---“I’m saying many things,” Mother Summer said. “Do you have a chance to remain yourself despite the tendency of the mantle to mold your thoughts and desires? All Knights, Winter and Summer, have that chance. Most fail.”
“But it’s possible,” I said.
She looked up at me and her eyes were deeper than time. “Anything is possible.”
“Ah,” I said, understanding. “We’re not really talking about me.”
“We are,” she said serenely, turning her eyes away. “And we are not.”
“Uh,” I said. “I’m getting a little confused here. What are we talking about, exactly?”
Mother Summer smiled at me.
And then she just clammed up.
We are? We’re not?
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---2015 AMA
Is Nic older than Mab?
He is.
--- End quote ---

--- Quote ---FitzMelech: @longshotauthor  Is Rashid the mad Arab Abdul Alhazred?
Jim: @FitzMelech He's the guy who took /down/ AlHazred.
Sarks: You have said that the Gatekeeper took down the Mad Arab, Abdul Alhazred. Is that Gatekeeper the same one we have currently? If yes, is he really that old, or was it time travel?
Jim: 3) He's really that old. And we're all time travelers. We just happen to be on the slow boat.
--- End quote ---

Gatekeeper is approximately 1300+ years old. Old enough to be alive, an active wizard to have already taken out Alhazred before our Mab ascended to Mab.
So, given that Nic, Gatekeeper, Lea, and Vadderung would be in the know about Mab's true identity, it is necessary to examine their interaction with Murphy for clues.  As far as the Archangels, we already know they Archangels took an interest in Murphy.  Murphy trains with the einherjar, was at CI, and particpated in the Wild Hunt so she is on Vadderung's radar.  ErlKing's radar would have noticed her at the Wild Hunt in CD.

I need to add Vadderung's hint to Harry about mask/mantles on Halloween in CD.  Was he hinting about someone other than Harry, say Mab/Murphy, putting on or discarding a mantle on Halloween.
(click to show/hide)
--- Quote ---“Maybe you’ll try,” Kringle replied amiably. He looked out at the lightening sky and let out a satisfied breath. “It was Halloween, Dresden. You put on a mask for a time. That’s all.” He looked directly at me and said, “Many, many mantles are worn—or discarded—on Halloween night, wizard.”
“You mean masks?” I asked, frowning.
“Masks, mantles,” Kringle said. “What’s the difference?”
He winked at me.
And for the briefest fraction of a second, the shadows falling from the tower and the cottage in the gathering morning behind us seemed to flow together. The eye he winked with vanished behind a stripe of shadow and what looked like a wide scar. His face seemed leaner, and for that instant I saw Vadderung’s wolfish features lurking inside Kringle’s.
I sat straight up, staring.
--- End quote ---

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