The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Proven Guilty: An update to my previous thoughts on the topic

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Cozarkian:
Unfortunately, beetnemesis, you are probably right. Bob gives a lecture about time travel in PG but there is no time travel reveal. Which means either JB put effort into a magical theory explanation that was mostly irrelevant, or there actually was TT in PG and we just didn't see it happening.

raidem:
We already had a form of Time Travel at least according to one of the characters in the series, Murphy, and it resulted in her demotion.

--- Quote ---She wiped at her mouth and looked at her watch. She tucked the last of her sandwich between her lips, and then started resetting the watch while she chewed.
“Gone almost exactly twenty-four hours. So we did some kind of time travel?” she asked.
“Oh, God no,” I said. “That’s on the list of Things One Does Not Do. It’s one of the seven Laws of Magic.”
“Maybe,” she said. “But however it happened, a whole day just went poof.
That’s time travel.”
“People are doing that kind of time travel all the time,” I said. “We just pulled into the passing lane for a while.”
She finished setting the watch and grimaced. “All the same.”
I frowned at her. “You okay?”
She looked up at the children and their mother. “I’m going to have one hell of a time explaining where I’ve been for the past twenty-four hours. It isn’t as though I can tell my boss that I went time traveling.”
“Yeah, he’d never buy it. Tell him you invaded Faerieland to rescue a young woman from a monster-infested castle.”
“Of course,” she said. “Why didn’t I think of that?”
I grunted. “Is it going to make trouble for you?”
She frowned for a moment and then said, “Intradepartmental discipline, probably.
--- End quote ---

So, it's possible that Team Harry (time travelers) enter the mortal world during those 24 hours in which Harry's team were off in the NeverNever.
Again, it would allow Murphy to be involved in time traveling, another detail to support TTMurphy theories.

(click to show/hide)
--- Quote ---“No clue. Just black.”
“Vague, yet unhelpful,” Bob said.
“Annoyingly so.”
“Oh, the Gatekeeper didn’t do it to annoy you,” Bob said. “He did it to prevent any chance of paradox.”

“He…” I blinked. “He what?”
“He got this from hindsight, he had to,” Bob said.
“Hindsight,” I murmured. “You mean he went to the future for this?”
“Well,” Bob hedged. “That would break one of the Laws, so probably not.
But he might have sent himself a message from there, or maybe gotten it from some kind of prognosticating spirit. He might even have developed some ability for that himself. Some wizards do.”
“Meaning what?” I asked.
“Meaning that it’s possible nothing has happened, yet. But that he wanted to put you on your guard against something that’s coming in the immediate future.”
“Why not just tell me?” I asked.
Bob sighed. “You just don’t get this, do you?”
“I guess not.”
“Okay. Let’s say he finds out that someone is going to steal your car tomorrow.”
“Heh,” I said bitterly. “Okay, let’s say that.”
“Right. Well, he can’t just call you up and tell you to move your car.”
“Why not?”
“Because if he significantly altered what happened with his knowledge of the future it could cause all sorts of temporal instabilities. It could cause new parallel realities to split off from the point of the alteration, ripple out into multiple alterations he couldn’t predict, or kind of backlash into his consciousness and drive him insane.” Bob glanced at me again. “Which, you know, might not do much to deter you, but other wizards take that kind of thing seriously.”
“Thank you, Bob,” I said. “But I still don’t get why any of those things would happen.”

Bob sighed. “Okay. Temporal studies 101. Let’s say that he hears about your car being stolen. He comes back to warn you, and as a result, you keep your car.”
“Sounds good so far.”
“But if your car never got stolen,” Bob said, “then how did he know to come back and warn you?”
I frowned.
“That’s paradox, and it can have all kinds of nasty backlash. Theory holds that it could even destroy our reality if it happened in a weak enough spot.
But that’s never been proven, and never happened. You can tell, on account of how everything keeps existing.”
“Okay,” I said. “So what’s the point in sending the message at all, if it can’t change anything?”
“Oh, it can,” Bob said. “If it’s done subtly enough, indirectly enough, you can get all kinds of things changed. Like, for example, he tells you that your car is going to be stolen. So you move it to a parking garage, where instead of getting stolen by the junkie who was going to shoot you and take the car on the street, you get jacked by a professional who takes the car without hurting you—because by slightly altering the fate of the car, he indirectly alters yours.”
I frowned. “That’s a pretty fine line.”
“Yes, which is why not mucking around with time is one of the Laws,” Bob said. “It’s possible to change the past—but you have to do it indirectly, and if you screw it up you run the risk of Paradox-egeddon.”
“So what you’re saying is that by sending me this warning, he’s indirectly working some other angle completely?”
“I’m saying that the Gatekeeper is usually a hell of a lot more specific about this kind of thing,” Bob said. “All of the Senior Council take black magic seriously. There’s got to be a reason he’s throwing it at you like this.
My gut says he’s working from a temporal angle.”
--- End quote ---

namkcas:
raidem,

Here is an example of that form of Time Travel....fly in an airplane.  You time travel when you do it.  Frankly, you time travel when you drive in a car (though the effect is so small that it can not be measured).  Any time you move...even walking...is time travel...just do the math with relativity.  The difference is that backwards time travel is not possible in the real world.

@beetnemesis,

I guess my theory is that there are 0 inconsistencies in PG.  None.  Which is the point of my theory.  That the entire book is entirely self-consistent and has a complete conclusion.  What it doesn't have is a wrap up that explains it front to back.

raidem:
I already know that, but the nn isn't simply time dilation. Nn can speed up time or slow it down relative to other areas in it, or relative to the mortal world.  Anyways, for such a drastic difference in time of one day you would need to be going at speeds much closer to light speed relative to point b. And that isn't what is happening, therefore it's a different form of time travel that is the basic form your describing of our world physics.
There is time traveling occurring in pg, or at least time manipulation occurring and Kringle even references it in cold days.


--- Quote ---when suddenly the silver starlight turned bright azure blue.
“What is that?” I asked, pointing at the sky.
“A temporal pressure wave,” the Erlking said, his flaming eyes narrowed.
“A wha’?” I asked.
The Erlking looked at Kringle. “This is your area of expertise. Explain it.”
“Someone is bending time against us,” Kringle said.
I stared at him for a second and then it clicked. “We’re being rushed forward so that we’ll get there too late,” I said. “We’re looking at a Doppler shift.”
“Is what he said correct?” the Erlking asked Kringle curiously.
“Essentially, aye. We’ve already lost half of an hour by my count.”
“Who could have done this?” I asked.
“You have encountered this before, wizard,” Kringle said. “Can you not guess?”
“One of the Queens,” I muttered. “Or someone operating on their level. Can we get out of this wave?”
--- End quote ---

wardenferry419:

--- Quote from: Cozarkian on October 19, 2017, 07:15:07 PM ---Unfortunately, beetnemesis, you are probably right. Bob gives a lecture about time travel in PG but there is no time travel reveal. Which means either JB put effort into a magical theory explanation that was mostly irrelevant, or there actually was TT in PG and we just didn't see it happening.

--- End quote ---
Bob did that lecture fairly early in the book, didn't he?

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