The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Who was the real target of the bloodline curse at CI?

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Kindler:
I've never thought the bloodline curse made sense—not because it was overkill, but because it was stupid. They gather everyone at Chichen Itza, and start priming the pump with hundreds of human sacrifices, just to kill two dudes?

I don't recall it said anywhere that it would break wards, so it's not like a coordinated attack against Edinburgh would necessarily follow. It could have just as easily pass through wards without breaking them, just with reduced effect. Even if they were, there's no guarantee that Ebenezer would even be there—and, lo and behold, he wasn't. As though it's a surprise that one of the best magical brawlers and the Blackstaff wouldn't hang back when there's fighting going on.

They could have achieved their result by paying some guy twenty grand to shoot Ebenezer from a grassy knoll when he walks out to his barn one evening. Hell, coordinate a drone strike. It's not like they don't have the resources to make that happen. Do the same thing to Harry, like the end montage from the Godfather.

Or how about some poison? Eb probably drinks from a well. Dump some arsenic in there, and he's toast, Wizard recovery or not. Hide some snakes in his truck. Dig some punji pits on his front lawn. If you don't care about getting caught, there is no reason to set up the magical equivalent of a Rube Goldberg Machine to get him or any other individual wizard dead.

Hell, they could've just had Peabody or Christos lace all of the food in the Ostentatiatory with iocaine (yes, I know it's not real) and take them all down at once. The right kind of poison will act too quickly for Listens to Wind to do anything about it.

But no! No. They had to do this whole operation with the whole world watching to prove something that would net them some dubious benefit in the war—take down a couple of heavy hitters, do something flashy—rather than get the job done. It's not even a particularly impressive spell; it's launched by chucking away hundreds of lives. And it still took hours upon hours to set up, with weeks of prep time. Of course it's going to be huge and effective. Hell, a penny-ante sorcerer was able to pull off a reasonable facsimile of the spell by using a thunderstorm. Why didn't they just do that? Instead, they set this up to brag about using a nuke to kill two wizards. Bravo?

I mean, if Harry's bloodline was sufficiently related to enough of the wizard population and they were able to kill, like, a third of the White Council, then sure. But nowhere is that indicated; Harry's Grandma was a vanilla mortal, per Word of Jim. Unless Malcolm's parents (or sibling) is still running around and proves to be important, I fail to see any viable reason to do this other than insanity.

Therefore, I submit that they were manipulated into doing it in the first place by either Martin (which I find unlikely; I don't think he had enough influence to pull that off—it'd be like Eldest Fetch (spymaster/assassin) manipulating Mab), or the Black Council.

Talby16:
I personally think it is a combination of the overkill argument posted by Mr. Death and the need to make a statement. This war was started by one man who refused to back down and the Reds have not been able to put the White Council away despite their big victories (Archangel, attack on the hospital, etc). I think that had the ritual not happened, and the war continued, the Reds would have won due to their ability to replenish their ranks. Their victory would have come with some horrendous losses though due to the power levels of the white council, but superior numbers would have carried the day. They come out the victors, but don't look the greatest. It was a costly, messy war that may leave them open to another group like the Fomer.

To preserve themselves, the Reds needed a quick end to the war and a statement to all the other groups to stay away. The ritual was overkill, but it got them the spectacular death of the man who started this war and one of the WC's biggest hitters. It may even convince the White Council to admit defeat (like the nukes in WWII). At the least, when combined with the biological warfare the White Council could be defeated in short order.

This ritual gives the Reds revenge on the man who started the war, revenge on the man who has done them great harm in the war, a spectacular statement, and a nuclear deterrent. Other posters have mentioned the ritual's drawbacks, but remember that the Red King was suffering from blood lust which was certainly impairing his thoughts and actions. It is certainly possible that some of his lords were similarly affected. This could have made the ritual look even more attractive to them considering the amount of sacrifices that had to go into it.

Mr. Death:
Kindler: What you have to remember is that with Wizards, quality > quantity, and Ebenezer and Harry are not just "two dudes."

One is the Blackstaff, probably one of the most deadly wizards on the planet who is personally responsible for nuking a Red Court warlord and his whole retinue, and just generally responsible for a whole hell of a lot of dead Red Court. He's also one of the leaders of the White Council.

The other is a war hero already and an inspiration to a large portion of the White Council; he is growing in power, and he's probably the direct influence and inspiration for a lot of the front-line fighters, like Ramirez.

It's not taking out "two dudes." It's like taking out the President and his cabinet, and breaking the US's nuclear weapons all in one go. Remember that of the 1000 or so wizards in the White Council, only a fraction of them are combat capable, and only a fraction of those come anywhere near Ebenezer or Harry's ability.

So the Red Court isn't just taking out "two dudes." They're taking out two extremely important weapons, both physically and morale-wise.

As for the wards? You're right, they don't know he's at Edinburgh, but at the same time, they can't afford to assume he's not. You don't win a fight by preparing to face an opponent's bare-minimum defenses; you win it by preparing to face him at his best. Anything less and they face the extremely real risk of Ebenezer going, "You call that a spell? I'll show you a spell," and dropping another satellite on their heads.

SpoonR:
Agree with overkill for Eb. At whichever fight it was (maybe right before Molly's execution?), Langtry was warding the reds off singlehandedly. Eb can kill lots of reds at once. I think Langtry is best Senior Council in defense, and Eb is best offense.  Also, apparently the spell either couldn't reach people in NeverNever or was really weakened there. Even if the whole ritual was a trap (I guess to get Eb & Harry out of Edinborough but still in the physical realm), that is awfully specific timing & planning needed.  If Harry hadn't shown up, would they have just kept sacrificing people until he did? Called the ritual off and gone home? Fired the spell and just hoped?

So, let's say it is overkill for Eb and Harry. The actual target is someone who they know will not be in the NeverNever, who they can't reach to do a non-magic kill, who has powerful defenses and/or a very distant link to the victim.

The target is Merlin, imprisoned in Demonreach. The Blackstaff, like the notebooks, has always been passed from parent to (grand)-child, so Harry is a direct blood descendant of Merlin (my WAG, not canon). And Merlin is either part source of Demonreach's power, or a keystone to the spell (spell must be cast at multiple points in time, and the caster must remain in the warded area?)  So killing him will let Nemesis free everything under Demonreach.

or not. My WAG

Kindler:

--- Quote from: Mr. Death on October 16, 2017, 05:29:01 PM ---Kindler: What you have to remember is that with Wizards, quality > quantity, and Ebenezer and Harry are not just "two dudes."

One is the Blackstaff, probably one of the most deadly wizards on the planet who is personally responsible for nuking a Red Court warlord and his whole retinue, and just generally responsible for a whole hell of a lot of dead Red Court. He's also one of the leaders of the White Council.

The other is a war hero already and an inspiration to a large portion of the White Council; he is growing in power, and he's probably the direct influence and inspiration for a lot of the front-line fighters, like Ramirez.

It's not taking out "two dudes." It's like taking out the President and his cabinet, and breaking the US's nuclear weapons all in one go. Remember that of the 1000 or so wizards in the White Council, only a fraction of them are combat capable, and only a fraction of those come anywhere near Ebenezer or Harry's ability.

So the Red Court isn't just taking out "two dudes." They're taking out two extremely important weapons, both physically and morale-wise.

As for the wards? You're right, they don't know he's at Edinburgh, but at the same time, they can't afford to assume he's not. You don't win a fight by preparing to face an opponent's bare-minimum defenses; you win it by preparing to face him at his best. Anything less and they face the extremely real risk of Ebenezer going, "You call that a spell? I'll show you a spell," and dropping another satellite on their heads.

--- End quote ---

Granted, Harry and Ebenezer are two highly visible, important players, and killing them both would be a big morale boost. I'm not saying that killing them isn't valuable, but the way tried to do it was dumb. There was no reason to even bother with magic in the first place. The benefits of the ritual were much, much lower than the risk and the cost. I prescribe to the Eeb's school of pragmatic villainy: low-risk murder attempts in enough quantity to get the job done.

Even as a show of force, it wouldn't have been impressive. Like I said before, what are they going to do, brag? "I killed a Senior Council Member and all it took was a thousand human sacrifices and weeks of preparation, alongside a coordinated assault against the White Council with a biological agent that made them sick!" Who are they even trying to impress? It's not like they're best friends with anyone in the supernatural community; the White Court hates them, the Denarians think of them as little more than parasites, and Faerie has nothing but contempt for them.

Maybe as a nuclear deterrent, but I don't know of many of the Council's family situations. It seems to me that the curse requires either a blood relative or direct DNA, like the Storm Front curse. How is that any better than any other magical assault? I get that it would work if Eb was behind the Edinburg wards, sure. But, again, the cost-benefit ratio is way, way skewed to the "cost" side. Imagine how much money they had to spend to get this done without mortal authorities knowing anything about it.

Even if they don't value the human sacrifices, which I get, the whole approach is just needlessly complicated for what they're trying to accomplish. Hell, I'd be willing to bet that Kincaid would even take the contract, given his animosity toward Ebenezer.

To me, that means either their goal isn't what Harry says it is, or they were manipulated into doing it.


Now, however, I'm thinking about it in terms of the Whole Pie; Martin delivers the Fellowship of Saint Giles to the Red King at this point, so if it was coordinated, it makes more sense to me.

But shouldn't the Red King and the Lord of the Outer Night be prepared to capitalize on this? A series of coordinated attacks—the disease, the Fellowship crumbling, and McCoy and Harry going down—should be followed, immediately, with a sweeping assault. It doesn't look like they were doing that. It looked like they were throwing a party before they'd won—and they could have won, if they were smart about it.

I dunno. Maybe Talby16—welcome to the Forums, by the way!—is right in that the blood addiction and mental instability is what guided their approach to this.

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