The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Hades/Socrates2.0; Plato/Pluto

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Cozarkian:
Did the other thread actually get closed? It didn't seem that bad...

Anyway, you know my opinion, but in the interest of furthering discussion rather than just disagree I'll propose an alternative. I think Socrates would be more likely to have been the Greek pantheon equivalent of a Winter Knight.

Or maybe a KOTC - the Swords essentially disarm magical opponents of their supernatural advantages, leveling the playing field. Similarly, Socrates disarms opponents with questions.

Personally, I think Hercules is the best candidate for a Winter Knight style role, but I believe we have confirmation he was a mantle, because isn't he the hulk somewhere now? Or maybe one of the gods known to turn wrestler?

Griffyn612:

--- Quote from: raidem on October 11, 2017, 02:30:49 PM ---
--- Quote ---Posted by: Griffyn612 « on: Today at 10:26:14 AM »
This might have gone better if you'd proposed a Plato/Pluto duality.

--- End quote ---
That has the added benefit of having two separate individuals but with a strong link to Socrates of the person who holds the Hades mantle, as Plato studied under Socrates.  The exchange loses some of the irony but not all, and it does twist the irony in a different directions than the one that I took it as.

--- End quote ---
Additionally, it was Plato that has a mysterious and unknown origin, it was Plato that spoke and debated with Socrates (to the point that his greatest works are dialogue involving Socrates, rather than himself, making philosophical leaps), and it was Plato that recorded the Myth of Er (once again recording or mimicking Socrates dialogue) that told the story of a man that journeyed through the afterlife (think Dante's Inferno, only less horror and 1700 years earlier) and return (alas, no appearance by Hades).

The story greatly increased the dialogue at the time of people being judged for their actions and true beliefs upon the their death, and all but introduced the idea of heaven and hell (previously, the only punishment described by religion was the Egyptian practice of annihilating the wicked so that they no longer existed)

The Myth of Er could have been, in a way, like Anne Rice's Memnoch the Devil.  Not to get too spoilery for what I consider her best novel, it delves into not only the journey of an Inferno/Er type story, but the purpose of it and the goals of the powerful beings that allow such journeys.  Because such things don't "just happen". 

Cozarkian:
I kind of like the Plato/Pluto idea. It cements the relationship, explaining why Hades has brunch with Socrates.

raidem:
I'm sorry, I chose to delete the thread myself.  Sorry to all that contributed to it.  I chose to refocus anew without side issues.


--- Quote ---“I used to think so,” I said. “Then I started getting older and realized how clueless I am.”
“The beginning of wisdom, or so Socrates would have it,” Hades said. “He says so every time we have brunch.”
--- End quote ---
Why would Socrates be telling Hades every time they have lunch that "beginning of wisdom is understanding how clueless i really am."  Is Socrates repeatedly saying that he himself is clueless and that is the beginning of wisdom every single time to Hades at brunch. Is Hades saying he is clueless and Socrates is telling him that is the beginning of wisdom.  Or is another person there at the table for brunch when Socrates tells the other, who recognizes that they are clueless, that it's the beginning of wisdom.

Griffyn612:

--- Quote from: raidem on October 11, 2017, 03:25:50 PM ---I'm sorry, I chose to delete the thread myself.  Sorry to all that contributed to it.  I chose to refocus anew without side issues.
Why would Socrates be telling Hades every time they have lunch that "beginning of wisdom is understanding how clueless i really am."  Is Socrates repeatedly saying that he himself is clueless and that is the beginning of wisdom every single time to Hades at brunch. Is Hades saying he is clueless and Socrates is telling him that is the beginning of wisdom.  Or is another person there at the table for brunch when Socrates tells the other, who recognizes that they are clueless, that it's the beginning of wisdom.

--- End quote ---
Recognizing ignorance in oneself is the root of wisdom. 
Recognizing it in others is the root of understanding. 
Recognizing it in the gods is the root of perdition.

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