Author Topic: Was Ascher telling the truth?  (Read 25304 times)

Offline forumghost

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2728
    • View Profile
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2017, 11:36:22 PM »
"The Paranet? Isn't that that Warlock Dresden's spy network? No way we can trust it"

- half the WC right now.

Offline wardenferry419

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5265
  • Can I get a Hells Bells !!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2017, 12:19:26 AM »
Good point, but maybe duplicate and adapt some of its functions.
Make Mine Butcher!
Who do I have to turn to ice to get a whiskey on the rocks?

Offline forumghost

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 2728
    • View Profile
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #47 on: December 11, 2017, 05:23:32 AM »
Good point, but maybe duplicate and adapt some of its functions.

I agree, except:

"If you ask me, this whole intra-webs thing is just a bunch of hooey. Darn kids messing round with their fancy do-dads. Why, back in my day...."

- The other half of the WC right now

Offline wardenferry419

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5265
  • Can I get a Hells Bells !!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #48 on: December 11, 2017, 11:45:39 AM »
Well, could always put Luccio in charge. She seems tech-savy and has some connections.
Make Mine Butcher!
Who do I have to turn to ice to get a whiskey on the rocks?

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #49 on: December 11, 2017, 12:17:38 PM »
Well, could always put Luccio in charge. She seems tech-savy and has some connections.
Yes, leave the wardens in charge and see how many members you have left after they start killing people. ;D
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7965
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #50 on: December 11, 2017, 02:23:07 PM »
Yes, leave the wardens in charge and see how many members you have left after they start killing people. ;D
Luccio really does not seem the type to just start slaughtering her way through a group of minor talents.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline wardenferry419

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5265
  • Can I get a Hells Bells !!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #51 on: December 11, 2017, 04:15:27 PM »
Luccio really does not seem the type to just start slaughtering her way through a group of minor talents.
I agree that Luccio might not; some others I am less certain, but not Luccio.
Make Mine Butcher!
Who do I have to turn to ice to get a whiskey on the rocks?

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #52 on: December 11, 2017, 05:28:37 PM »
Luccio really does not seem the type to just start slaughtering her way through a group of minor talents.
There is a lot of room for own initiative with the wardens, it is mostly hands of management. Types like Morgan can do whatever they like and make reports later or not.

Some distance between the parameters and the white council is advisable.
WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7965
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2017, 05:37:55 PM »
They kill warlocks. Even Morgan didn't just up and execute Dresden when he suspected he was murdering folks with magic. He waited for the council's judgment and tried to get evidence or catch him in the act. If Morgan could do whatever he liked and make a report later or not, Dresden would've been dead in Storm Front.

I think you're confusing the average talent's fear of the Wardens with how they actually operate.
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast

Offline Arjan

  • Seriously?
  • ***
  • Posts: 13235
    • View Profile
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2017, 07:25:26 PM »
They kill warlocks. Even Morgan didn't just up and execute Dresden when he suspected he was murdering folks with magic. He waited for the council's judgment and tried to get evidence or catch him in the act. If Morgan could do whatever he liked and make a report later or not, Dresden would've been dead in Storm Front.

I think you're confusing the average talent's fear of the Wardens with how they actually operate.
When Harry tried to bring in Molly for trial the merlins reaction to was something like "why did you not kill her yet" and "you are wasting time". Even with a warden they do not really trust like Harry the overview is minimal.

I am sure a lot of wardens do their jobs as expected but there is a lot of room for abusing power, cutting corners, acting on tunnel vision, ....

And little chance of discovery. In such an organisation you need only a few bad apples to get a reputation among people who do not dare to complain because there is no independent complains department and wardens will cover each other. Because that is what members of closed organisations do if they get the chance.

And if a bad apple is in a position of influence others will copy his behaviour because they think it is normal.

Wardens have power. People behave differently around them which makes them less aware what is going on.

And most importantly pressure to get results can do the rest. The whole structure promotes abuse of power and no real brakes on it. The only brakes are the wardens own consciences. That is not enough.

So I do not think they will all the run out to kill the kids but if one does there is little to stop him and other abuse will even be more likely.

WG+++: The White God is Mister.
SH[Elaine+++]

Offline wardenferry419

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5265
  • Can I get a Hells Bells !!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2017, 07:41:34 PM »
Any person with power has the opportunity to abuse that power. The best that can be done is checks and balances and hope the person with the power has corresponding morality.
Make Mine Butcher!
Who do I have to turn to ice to get a whiskey on the rocks?

Offline groinkick

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7556
  • Strike first. Strike Hard. No Mercy! - Cobra Kai
    • View Profile
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2017, 07:45:08 PM »
They kill warlocks. Even Morgan didn't just up and execute Dresden when he suspected he was murdering folks with magic. He waited for the council's judgment and tried to get evidence or catch him in the act. If Morgan could do whatever he liked and make a report later or not, Dresden would've been dead in Storm Front.

I think you're confusing the average talent's fear of the Wardens with how they actually operate.

Morgan was an honorable man who had a near fanatical belief in the laws of the White Council.  It's unlikely that every warden has such honor, and belief in those laws.  Morgan in some ways is very similar to Michael.  Justin was also a warden, he chose to ignore the laws, and abuse his position. 

Morgan and Justin were opposite ends of the spectrum.  It's probably the case that the majority of the wardens fall somewhere in the middle of usually following the laws, and crossing the line on occasion.  Especially if someone they care for, or a fellow warden had been killed recently, and they have had their fill of trying to face warlocks on uneven terms.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 07:51:16 PM by groinkick »
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline Kindler

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 1139
    • View Profile
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2017, 08:08:56 PM »
On the subject of warden morality, consider the looser conscription standards since the start of the war with the Red Court. Harry mentions that they finished the war with more wardens than they started with because of it, but what kind of people were brought in? The common denominator is that they're capable in combat, not that they're loyal, upstanding citizens; see Dresden's conscription. I find it hard to believe that some of them weren't a little trigger-happy in the magic department.

Offline wardenferry419

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 5265
  • Can I get a Hells Bells !!!!
    • View Profile
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #58 on: December 11, 2017, 08:57:15 PM »
Some of them probably are; but, not all of them. For every happy hunter of warlocks there is a Carlos showing maturity and a whole spectrum of personalities in-between.
Make Mine Butcher!
Who do I have to turn to ice to get a whiskey on the rocks?

Offline Mr. Death

  • Posty McPostington
  • ***
  • Posts: 7965
  • Not all those who wander are lost
    • View Profile
    • The C-Team Podcast
Re: Was Ascher telling the truth?
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2017, 08:59:41 PM »
When Harry tried to bring in Molly for trial the merlins reaction to was something like "why did you not kill her yet" and "you are wasting time". Even with a warden they do not really trust like Harry the overview is minimal.
Because she was a warlock.

The paranetters are not warlocks.

That's what it boils down to. The Wardens might be fanatical, but they're fanatical about killing warlocks, not just lopping the heads off any minor practitioner they can get away with.

They don't have a quota. There isn't some "results" leader board they have to keep up on that's going to make them want to kill more people.

In fact, Harry makes it explicitly clear in White Night that the people who make up the Paranet are explicitly under the protection of the White Council. They have a hotline that minor talents can call to get people like Harry to show up. Half the plot of White Night was framing the Wardens because otherwise the minor talents would have been able to call them for protection.

So I don't get it. Why do you seem to think the Wardens are going to look at a list of innocent minor talents and consider it a hit list?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 09:07:19 PM by Mr. Death »
Compels solve everything!

http://blur.by/1KgqJg6 My first book: "Brothers of the Curled Isles"

Quote from: Cozarkian
Not every word JB rights is a conspiracy. Sometimes, he's just telling a story.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_T_mld7Acnm-0FVUiaKDPA The C-Team Podcast