The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Was Ascher telling the truth?
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Mira on October 09, 2017, 02:16:48 PM ---I think she was very much telling the truth. She killed with magic her rapists and the Wardens wanted to arrest her and ultimately behead her for being a warlock. This made her run, this made her bitter against the White Council. She wasn't wrong there, the same fate was waiting for young Harry save he had a unknown grandfather in high places who was willing to defend him and stand with him under the Doom...
--- End quote ---
I suspect she was telling the truth...but maybe not the complete truth, and maybe a funhouse mirror version of it.
For ex, the Council does recognize self-defense exceptions to the First Law. Did she kill her rapists in the process of defending herself...or in revenge for the assault? Did she use magic to try to defend herself...or did she go past self-defense into something else?
Of course there's always the issue of whether she was believed or not, Harry was acting in self-defense but the truth of his claims were doubted. But then again, Harry himself notes that Eb was not the only member of the Council who had sided with him, either. How much of Harry's problem was Morgan's obsessions?
Hannah's case is not necessarily a binary "Telling the truth or lying" thing. She could be telling the truth and the matter still not be entirely as she describes it. The more so with Lasciel whispering in her head...
Dina:
I read the title of this thread a few times and then came to see if it was about Archer after all :)
I think she had the coin for a while, and I belived her main story but some details are probably added at hoc in Harry's benefit.
Mira:
--- Quote ---For ex, the Council does recognize self-defense exceptions to the First Law. Did she kill her rapists in the process of defending herself...or in revenge for the assault? Did she use magic to try to defend herself...or did she go past self-defense into something else?
--- End quote ---
They do, but without a good advocate what chance does the accused really have? When Harry was dragged before the Council to be judged, he was a scared kid with a hood over his head, they spoke in Latin, he didn't understand a word of it. What chance did he really to defend himself if Eb hadn't come forth? Given the recent history of the Council and the attitude of the Merlin, Hannah would have had no chance... And there is also this, how much knowledge of the Council and her rights did she have? If she only had rumor to go by, of course she ran... Harry was totally ignorant of both the Laws and the Council.. In my opinion if he had a clue at all he too would have ran.
--- Quote ---Of course there's always the issue of whether she was believed or not, Harry was acting in self-defense but the truth of his claims were doubted. But then again, Harry himself notes that Eb was not the only member of the Council who had sided with him, either. How much of Harry's problem was Morgan's obsessions?
--- End quote ---
His problems with Morgan came later because he was of the same mind as the Merlin that potential warlocks once they've crossed the line cannot be reformed. It is unclear how much they sided with Harry, they were mostly afraid of this kid with so much raw power that he could take out a former Warden in a duel.
--- Quote ---Hannah's case is not necessarily a binary "Telling the truth or lying" thing. She could be telling the truth and the matter still not be entirely as she describes it. The more so with Lasciel whispering in her head...
--- End quote ---
Oh I think it can be the truth and exactly as she described it down to her bitterness after her friends died.. The question is more about what happened after that. Here is my theory, Andriel sees and hears everything, so through him, Nic would be aware of Hannah and her plight. Nic also knows that Lasciel was rejected by Harry and is none too happy about it. So from there I don't think it would be too hard for him to arrange "contact" between Lasciel's coin and Hannah.. We know how good she is at twisting the mind, we saw what she was able to do as "Sheila" to Harry in Dead Beat, only he was saved by Butters pointing out there was no Sheila. He was saved by that and the fact he had had an earlier soul gaze with a Denarian in Death Masks and didn't want any part of that club. So it isn't too hard to believe Lasciel could manipulate someone already angry and very bitter with promises of revenge for her friends.
Kindler:
Anger and indignation like what Hannah showed usually comes from genuine persecution. I believe it happened as she described, which is why she is so bitter; she defended herself, and was unjustly hunted for it. I'm not even sure she meant to kill the Wardens when they found her; fire is not delicate. But her persecution complex made her a perfect target for Nicodemus. Whether or not it happened exactly as she detailed is up for debate, but I believe she truly believed that's how it was, if that made sense.
My real question is why the Genoskwa signed up. Dude already had tons of power with no obligation. What did he have to gain by chaining himself to Ursiel? What did he want to destroy that he couldn't on his own?
Mr. Death:
I don't think the Genoskwa was thinking about it in those kinds of terms. He just wants more power to destroy things.
You could ask the same about money. What can you buy with $10 billion that you can't with 9? Nothing, really, and yet people who have that kind of money are always trying to get more.
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