The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Was Justin preparing Harry to learn necromancy?
Mira:
--- Quote ---While it might be perfectly possible to isolate and brainwash kids to be loyal, such behavior is very hard to instill in a very independent minded and stubborn teenager who you have only worked with for 1-2 years. It might be enough to earn a significant measure of loyalty and trust, but not the level of control Justin might want if he sees Harry (or Elaine) as dangerous weapons even if he trained them for another decade as apprentices.
--- End quote ---
But Justin had them for more than one or two years and Harry did love him as a father figure.. So he could have had plenty of love and trust if he wanted it, and did have it. Also since neither Elaine nor Harry had a clue about the Laws of Magic or the White Council Justin could have told them just about anything as far as using their powers go, they'd have no basis to question the rightness or wrongness of it. So if he wanted to, I'd think controlling how the viewed things would be pretty easy and there shouldn't have been any reason to go into mind control.
Kindler:
--- Quote from: dspringer1 on September 21, 2017, 08:04:05 PM ---One reason for the ritual is that Justin is about to go public with Harry and Elaine. They will get introduced to other wizards, learn about the laws of magic, etc. At some point Justin MUST do this as he cannot isolate himself for decades to train them in secret. He is a warden after all and has responsibilities. If Justin was black council, remember they were working towards a war 30 years in the future (during Grave Peril) which means close to 40 years in the future when Justin had Harry as apprentice. That is a VERY long time to go into hiding or retain the blind trust of an apprentice.
While it might be perfectly possible to isolate and brainwash kids to be loyal, such behavior is very hard to instill in a very independent minded and stubborn teenager who you have only worked with for 1-2 years. It might be enough to earn a significant measure of loyalty and trust, but not the level of control Justin might want if he sees Harry (or Elaine) as dangerous weapons even if he trained them for another decade as apprentices.
Keep in mind that Justin did not come across as super charismatic or loving to Harry. Also keep in mind that Harry was willing to walk away fro Eb (who he was much more fond of) in a heartbeat when he realized that Eb was acting contrary to the principles he preached. If Justin was perceptive enough to understand this aspect of Harry's character, then he knew he would not be able to effectively control Harry's behavior while openly doing bad things.
--- End quote ---
Harry walked away from Eb when he was a grown man, after he perceived him as walking away from the principles he taught him. Harry certainly loved and respected him more than Justin, because the circumstances were significantly different. Justin's sudden betrayal made Ebenezer's kindness and patience way, way more impactful.
On the flip side of things, if he understood Harry's stubborn moral code and realized he wouldn't side with him, then his approach was actually dumber. The kids sleep in his house. He, presumably, prepares meals for them. It's as simple and straightforward as drugging dinner and enthralling them both while they're asleep, or keeping one down while he works on the other. He doesn't even need to head to the pharmacy or anything; he can brew an effective potion with Bob. The whole process could've been done painlessly and simply, which is why his approach seems so hackneyed.
It makes me think that either: A) Something changed for Justin and he had to change his plans on the fly, B) Something about Justin changed, and he had his switch flipped from "a-hole" to "evil," or C) This is an "Evil Cannot Comprehend Good" situation and Justin thought that Harry would be okay with what went on.
I'm not necessarily saying that Lea and Harry and Elaine's interpretations of Justin's actions are definitely wrong, just that the events from Harry's perspective raise questions for me. I'd really like to know what Justin said to Elaine before he whammied her.
Mr. Death:
Recall that the reason Harry found out about it was that he skipped school. Justin had been working on Elaine while Harry was gone, and the set up that Harry found there was almost certainly supposed to have been cleaned up by the time he got home. It seems sloppy and hackneyed because Harry blundered into the middle of it.
If Harry hadn't decided to play hooky, he wouldn't have suspected anything until it was already too late.
forumghost:
--- Quote from: Snark Knight on September 20, 2017, 11:24:41 PM ---That was more like top fifty to a hundred overall, and that estimate was before a lot of the Council's casualties and Harry's own growth. He's probably at or very near the top if you look only at his age cohort.
--- End quote ---
That said, given that even Butters is apparently a better Wizard then him (in spite of having literally zero magical talent) Harry may well be over-estimating himself.
He's In the top 50 for raw power, but in terms of actually ability he's like, apprentice level. He just compensates for it with raw energy.
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on September 22, 2017, 06:37:10 PM ---Recall that the reason Harry found out about it was that he skipped school. Justin had been working on Elaine while Harry was gone, and the set up that Harry found there was almost certainly supposed to have been cleaned up by the time he got home. It seems sloppy and hackneyed because Harry blundered into the middle of it.
If Harry hadn't decided to play hooky, he wouldn't have suspected anything until it was already too late.
--- End quote ---
True. What I wonder though is; why enthrall them to begin with? It's quite clear looking at Harry's memories with Justin that he was trying to go with old-school indoctrination at first- which is kinda a waste of time if you're just gonna mind-jack them.
Something must have happened to accelerate his plans...
Mira:
--- Quote ---True. What I wonder though is; why enthrall them to begin with? It's quite clear looking at Harry's memories with Justin that he was trying to go with old-school indoctrination at first- which is kinda a waste of time if you're just gonna mind-jack them.
--- End quote ---
Because perhaps Justin failed to take in account the natural tendency for fifteen/sixteen year old teenagers to give you the finger as a matter of course.
--- Quote ---That said, given that even Butters is apparently a better Wizard then him (in spite of having literally zero magical talent) Harry may well be over-estimating himself.
He's In the top 50 for raw power, but in terms of actually ability he's like, apprentice level. He just compensates for it with raw energy.
--- End quote ---
Which Harry is constantly saying, or he says he is a lazy wizard, so I doubt he over estimates himself, if anything he underestimates himself.... However when he was master to Molly as Eb predicted he became a better wizard because he was forced to study his wizard skills to teach her and to lead by example.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version