The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Starborn idea
Kindler:
--- Quote from: groinkick on September 14, 2017, 06:45:05 PM ---I was thinking maybe a magical ritual say with 5 people or objects of power, points in time, something like that.
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Interesting thought. Is it possible Raith realized what she was trying to do and tried to kill her before she pulled it off? If he had a connection to He Who Walks Behind prior to Blood Rites, it'd be in his interest to prevent a Starborn.
DonBugen:
--- Quote from: jonas on September 14, 2017, 11:43:22 PM ---The Pentagram, the stars and stones curse, the 5 stars on Lady Nights neck when the sky is devoid of stars in CH and a few other things lead me to believe there are 5 major repeating starborn patterns(Harry vs Thomas is a good example of starborn differentiation). If you par down most pantheons you can find the five major god/ess's. An also possible corralates to the 5 planets(eight astrological) visible from earth with the naked eye as defined by Greek and Roman astrologists. So 5 and 3, just like the number of Holy relics plus nails of the sword. the thing is, each one probably represents at its kernel the whole of a 'star' and that gets broken down piecemeal in reality(except angels, they represent the entirety of one, an absolute without room for change) So if you put them to the current agenda in the Fae, each line of queens/knights is one being, then the kings are 2 beings of their own(each starborn culminates as that kernel, that kernel is the mortal ability to change) and the 5th is probably in the fomor/N archetype starborn.
*the hard thing to explain but which i'm pretty sure we will see some of eventually, is instead of bringing in some identity like a mantle portion, if you die like TWC did you become the identity of the 'star' itself. Which may be why Lasciel has a greek woman as what Harry presumes is close to her true looks, even though angels have existed since they did creation, ergo before actual human mortals. On a lower level Harry did the same thing I think, being both alive and malleable but also the spirit/Mantle of Dresden at the same time.(you wanna be absolute, you gotta get absolutely killed out THEN come back, he just broke the lid on his mortality cup as of yet)
**current line up is Harry, Molly, Murphy, Marcone and.... Ms Beckett perhaps? Or maybe Grey, hard to identify the last one so far. ***oops, I plum forgot about Elaine, #5 is Elaine.
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I normally don't quote entire posts, but this one just kinda calls for it. Wow.
Ok, I'm kinda following, but could you clear up some things?
5 stars on Lady Night's neck? When was that?
Is Thomas a Starborn? Has anyone other than Harry been called a Starborn?
I get the repetition of 5, where is 3?
And then you completely lost me when you started talking about kernels of a star. I don't know what your list of characters at the end is supposed to mean. Are you saying that all these people are also starborn?
Don't get me wrong; I -love- complex theory. I just don't understand this one yet, but want to. Please elaborate, with sources if possible!
Rasins:
You mean the five have to come together somehow and "BE" the starborn?
jonas:
--- Quote from: DonBugen on September 15, 2017, 02:08:49 PM ---I normally don't quote entire posts, but this one just kinda calls for it. Wow.
Ok, I'm kinda following, but could you clear up some things?
5 stars on Lady Night's neck? When was that?
Is Thomas a Starborn? Has anyone other than Harry been called a Starborn?
I get the repetition of 5, where is 3?
And then you completely lost me when you started talking about kernels of a star. I don't know what your list of characters at the end is supposed to mean. Are you saying that all these people are also starborn?
Don't get me wrong; I -love- complex theory. I just don't understand this one yet, but want to. Please elaborate, with sources if possible!
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1 In CH when Harry is at the stone table to receive the mantle, which the first time he was there in SK the sky had more than the five stars iirc, the sky was otherwise empty on this event.
2No, but come on, he was born ON valentines day? If there's not a confluence around that, i'll eat my shoe.
3 what do you mean the repetition of three? the 3 nails of the cross, each sword with it's attendant angel? I think each has basically given up their meddling ability to gracethe sword and (rightful)mortal bearer with that choice ability. Interestingly most power gives choices, theirs is literal empowering of the ability to choose. Not sure if this is actually what your asking about.. between them and the 3 queen/Hecate, 3 is a repeatable ideal found in the pantheon's(hell even 3 walkers coming for Harry)
4 The Kernel thing... So you know how ancient stories have gods coming from the stars/planets? With the Greek's actually having 5 ones named directly from our solar system? I think this is why there are so many starborn, as many as the number of stars in the sky, and just as varied. Being reborn endlessly throughout the human race as the basest avatar level, without power to change into a more serious version because 99.9% of them don't have a huge gob of magic/creation to grow and change and effect the world with(matches woj about most starborn never have much power) And.. this is why we have various ppl like Merlin, Odin, GK, ect whom have similar stories, dispositions or features, they share the same start point and 'archetype' starborn pattern that then went through. (Also why so many see Molly and Murphy in Mab) (click to show/hide)Random tangent, these starborn like Harry don't just become more like the thing, they also push off aspects or create them in those they interact with, that's why I named Ms. Beckett as a potential, She's Morgana to Marcones Arthur. The hidden bitch who secretly is trying to take down the kingdom, whom he sleeps with but has not married, bastard in the future here? But she only has some of those aspects on her own, in some ways she fit's directly because of Marcone's influence on her over anything in her own backstory. But the person whom is probably the same star as Morgana isn't Beckett. Which might also be just because ppl confabulate history and it does indeed vary every generation to a point. Tangent over, mostly... So bunches of starborn, but 5 specific ones that matter in each generation. So I think the group I listed are all their own individual stars to be born from, yes. From here I should probably take a breather as my mind is still mushy this morning/afternoon. There's more I wish to say, but I can't grasp those articles to try and put on paper atm.
Do wanna try and elaborate on this, Mantles are made from bringing/breaking down pieces of that memetic power inside, gods from the stars. Angels from having your own memetic mojo and still dying, you imprint over your star, it instead becomes more YOU. Which is also a comparable myth on what happens to many mortal hero's when they become god's, they get a constellation of their own kinda thing.
groinkick:
--- Quote from: Rasins on September 15, 2017, 03:41:54 PM ---You mean the five have to come together somehow and "BE" the starborn?
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I'm not sure. I mean my opinion is that Maggie may have actually done the ritual, or whatever, and then backed out. When she met Harry's dad, and Harry was conceived it wasn't her intention to create a Starborn, but the preparation she had done before stuck, and her body was primed to make one.
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