Author Topic: Why Simon?  (Read 11988 times)

Offline kazimmoinuddin

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2017, 09:05:25 PM »
Simon was said to be the council expert on the vampire courts, so I bet that his lore is very valuable. I wondered if there was something unique about the vampire courts. Somehow these seven predatory races, each got a place on the accords. While different, these seven races see each other as some kind of extended kin. I always believed that implied some kind of common origin. My bet is they are each the result of magical creation or outsider influence.
Due to mavra and the kemmler book, I suspect we will see a lot of the BCV in the end. I bet Simon lore on them, would be very useful. We also know there will be a lot of power plays with the Wcv, so their lore would be seen. The rest of the lore could just be used to leverage the remaining vampire courts into the conflict.
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Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2017, 09:43:47 PM »
Cowl was a known Kemmler collaborator whom the other Kemmlerites knew.  Neither Mab nor Luccio flinched at the name-drop.  "Cowl" is a known individual.

So is the argument that Simon was always Cowl?  In which case, how did he act as both Senior Council/Council member and Kemmler aide and agent during the war?  Because that's what's being argued as unlikely for the current war.

Or is the argument that Cowl was always a facade of Kemmler's, allowing him to operate without his own identity?  And he then swapped with Simon before his final "death"?  And none of Simon's close friends noticed that he'd changed?  A change that even Harry picked up on in moments with Corpsetaker/Luccio, an accomplished body swapper that has experi ence replacing people?
This is a very good point against why Simon/Cowl chose his timing for faking his death.  Why now and not then? Based on how Grevane, Corpsetaker, and Cowl interact, it suggests that Cowl was the newest member to Kemmler's circle of disciples. I think that Cowl used Kemmler for knowledge without drinking the kool-aid that the other two did. Cowl seems to be a wait, see, then act at an opportune moment type of person. He waited until Grevane was dead to drop his zombie illusion and make a play for the power. For Simon/Cowl to fake his death might be an act of necessity and timing.
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Offline groinkick

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2017, 05:58:01 AM »
Neither Mab nor Luccio protest the name Cowl as one of Kemmler's disciples.And while he protested the association with Kemmler early on, Cowl later admitted to communicating with the others with a common history with Kemmler.I'm not sure either works very well with the arguments being made about time requirements to double-face a war and friends detecting changes in aura.

Note that I'm not one that thinks it's too much to be both Simon/Cristos and Cowl.  I think either could do both, the latter being an easier job because he wasn't a Senior while planning the Darkhallow.  But I think Simon still could have done both, which is why I was looking for reasons he would have faked his death.

My theory


Well the main reason for Simon to fake his death if he's Cowl would be because he knew everything was going to be heating up.  He would be hard pressed to be working behind the scenes if he's surrounded by people who are protecting a Senior Council member during a time of war.  Much easier to fake his death so he can work full time as Cowl.

My personal belief as to why Simon is Cowl is because he was Justin's teacher.  I think he was probably secretly related to Justin the same way it wasn't common knowledge that Eb and Maggie were family.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 06:02:19 AM by groinkick »
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

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Offline Griffyn612

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2017, 11:41:59 AM »
My theory
Not necessarily.  It just requires the ability to multitask and conceal corrupted aura, at least one of which would be absolutely required for anyone on the Council, Senior or otherwise, to be Cowl.

Quote
Well the main reason for Simon to fake his death if he's Cowl would be because he knew everything was going to be heating up.  He would be hard pressed to be working behind the scenes if he's surrounded by people who are protecting a Senior Council member during a time of war.  Much easier to fake his death so he can work full time as Cowl.
Unless he has loyal Brutes, which he could use as his guard.  But that's theoretical, and not supported by the text.  Faking one death would be difficult; faking several is just asking to get caught.  They said the "entire" Brute Squad was killed, so I doubt many were loyal enough to be in on the secret, but not loyal enough to spare.

Quote
My personal belief as to why Simon is Cowl is because he was Justin's teacher.  I think he was probably secretly related to Justin the same way it wasn't common knowledge that Eb and Maggie were family.
I lean more towards DuMorne being a loyal Brute, if Simon really is Cowl.  He's either a bad egg, or he was crafted to be a rebel agent against the Council.

Which makes you wonder about Margaret.  Was she just a bad egg?  Did she see the hypocrisy earlier than Harry did (discovering her father's role) and decide to break the wheel?  Or was she too being crafted?

Offline Anubissama

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2017, 01:05:09 PM »
Cowl has been playing with necromancy and outsiders.  A lot.  I am sure he is taking all sorts of precautions, but I suspect there is a limit to how much he can shield himself from the consequences of that.   I suspect Cowl's magical energies are starting to show as tainted. 

Point of order, Cowl seems not to have any direct contact with Outsiders. In his fight with Dresden Harry notes that his magic lacks the usual
Quote
nauseating, greasy, somehow empty feel that I'd come to associate with the worst black magic.
Butcher uses this kind of descriptives almost exclusively for Outsider influence/magic. Stands to reason that Cowl doesn't have direct contact with Outsiders, or at worst is so skilled with his magic that he can avoid being tainted by his contact with them.

But back on the topic, I agree with most reasons stated here. Freedom to act without any scrutiny being a big one, and as most people said being the Councils expert on Vampire he would have been in high demand during the War.

His Vampire expertise is one too but in a different way. Every time we see a Cowl sponsored plot going on, vampires are somewhat connected to it.

Dead Beat - the offensive of the Red Court was scheduled with the Dark Hallow.

White Night - Cowl was the one to steer the Skavis into betraying his Court.

The whole plot showed a deep understanding of White Court Vampires psychology, which as Ramirez mentioned is NOT common knowledge amongst Wizards or Warden. It is actually so suspect to understand a White Courts psyche that it was enough for Ramirez to suspect Dresden of backdoor dealing with the Court when he showed it. So this definitely implies that Cowl is a Wizard with above standard knowledge of at least the White Court - say like Simmon the Council expert on Vampires.

His style of magic, but this one can honestly go both ways for Simon or Justine so I guess it doesn't really count. Harry uses an x shape of his wrists as a defence posture, so does Cowl. If Simon taught Justin and Justine taught Dresden what he knows about battle magic. It makes sense for both of them to have similar gesture. And no, crossed wrists are not a standard position because we see Peabody in Turn Coat using the Doctor Strange gesture as a defensive Sigil.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 01:07:54 PM by Anubissama »
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Offline groinkick

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2017, 07:34:02 PM »
Cowl appears to be in charge...  But is he?  If he isn't, who would you think is calling the shots?
Stole this from Reginald because it was so well put, and is true for me as well.

"I love this place. It was a beacon in the dark and I couldn't have made it through some of the most maddening years of my life without some great people here."  Thank you Griff and others who took up the torch.

Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2017, 07:42:43 PM »
Just a goofy thought, what if Cowl is pulling a Raistlin? The spirit of a older powerful wizard sharing the lifeforce of another wizard. Just a crazy thought and not something I believe in.
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Offline kazimmoinuddin

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2017, 12:38:50 AM »
The thing with necromancers, being dead does not mean they are gone.
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Offline Bacchus

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2017, 05:40:13 AM »
Ive long been a supporter of the Simon= Cowl theory but the idea of a dirty aura stumped me on my recent reread.
    the best explanation that still lets Simon be cowl i came up with was that even though he was a follower of kemmler he never did much truly black magic.  My thoughts were with Kemmler openly fighting the council for decades it would be a huge help to have a high LVL warden/senior councilman as a mole.

     With the aura issue this would mean he only ever did minor black magics and mostly was just a battlemage type loyal to Kemmler.  i got the idea from things Ebeneezer said that most truly powerful wizards have done a few dark things so some low level taint wouldn't out him.  During dead beat out of the kemmlerites he did mostly normal magics and never really raised any zombies. i also wonder if doing black magics like kumori saving the gunshot victim would add any taint at all because the intent behind it was good.

also when he told dresden about the council soon falling it didn't strike me like something he put a huge amount of effort into but more like it was a side effect of his plans of godhood and conquering death. he seems to never have really drank the kool aid for kemmlers cult and more used them for his own goals of conquering death. It wouldn't seem out of character if he fought with the white council to take out kemmler.

 Taking his and kumori's actions as a guide he was far more grey then the rest of the kemmlerites who were fully evil.

                 As to why he faked his death my guess is he's wanted to pull off the darkhallow since kemmler tried it and thought the biggest war the white council has been in during his lifetime was the best shot. To pull that off he knew he would have to fully blacken his aura so he faked his death during the years of prep that would have went into that so as not to quickly be outed by the rest of the council. with his knowledge of bob his attempt wouldn't have relied on the word of kemmler being found as he could steal bob at any time.

as a side note the aura issue also destroyed my support of Elaine=kumori as dresden saw kumori throw spells and Elaine throw spells in the next book and i feel dresden would have recognized Elaine magic when kumori threw spells or a dark aura in Elaines magic in the next book.

sorry for the bad spelling and grammer

Offline dspringer1

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2017, 02:43:44 PM »
The biggest argument against Simon being Cowl is really that Cowl was a major discipline of Kemler.  Hard to argue that Simon could learn necromancy so well and NOT be obviously tainted magically speaking. 

Offline isoycrazy

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2017, 07:43:44 PM »
The biggest argument against Simon being Cowl is really that Cowl was a major discipline of Kemler.  Hard to argue that Simon could learn necromancy so well and NOT be obviously tainted magically speaking.

Necromancy used against humans is what taints a person.  If Simon worked on nonhumans like animals, he would be free of taint.

Also, whose to say Simon didn't die and surf into a prepared body?

Offline Rasins

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2017, 07:49:03 PM »
Regarding the taint ...

I've gotten the impression that all members of the SC have SOME taint.  They wouldn't have gotten the power they have if they hadn't made deals, or done things that are pushing close to the edges of the laws.
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Offline kazimmoinuddin

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2017, 09:59:18 PM »
What if Simon was used as a sacrifice or summoning? Cowl could be an undead necromancer bound to Simon form.
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Offline wardenferry419

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2017, 11:22:06 PM »
that sounds interesting.
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Offline Snark Knight

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Re: Why Simon?
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2017, 03:17:00 AM »
i also wonder if doing black magics like kumori saving the gunshot victim would add any taint at all because the intent behind it was good.

Everything a practitioner does seems to leave some sort of signature on their aura, but in that particular case I think it would show as traces of dark but not exactly evil.

What's most perverted about the way Grevane or Corpsetaker raise undead is that they're enslaving human zombies / ghosts to their will. Kumori presumably would have picked up something more similar to the hints of darkness Harry got from raising Sue - in her case because she was saving a life with dark power but not compelling him to obey her, and in Harry's case because it wasn't a person.