The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
White Court, Venatori and Kemmler
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--- Quote from: Snark Knight on August 25, 2017, 03:50:06 PM ---I think the relevant WOJ leaned pretty strongly in the direction that Vlad Dracula didn't intend on exactly the result he got by founding the Black Court. It wasn't explicit, but I got the sense he'd halfway flubbed an ascension ritual and turned himself into a monster rather than a minor god.
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I got a similar impression, though Im not personally leaning toward an ascension-ritual persay. Per WOJ "They're actually tainted by something hideous and unworldly", and Drakul is something "entirely unhuman that got trapped in human form". I think Dracula Tried to get in touch with the "extended family" and got tainted/possessed by what he let in. Or rather let Inside... <Insert ominous thunderclap here>
jonas:
--- Quote ---Issues keeping the two straight,
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That, I confabulate them as the same person cause for years I thought they were.
1it doesn't have to be rooted in angelic power, but isn't it? Drakul in the DF I think is literally Lucifer trapped in a mortal vessel without his power(Thematically, this gives him less power but more choice, perhaps why he has more clout vs influencing and lying to mortals?) it comes from an old thread here that discusses how Micheal calls Mavra serpent spawn. Lucifer is a fallen, and a dragon without wings is a serpent. the thread more or less came to the unanimous decision Micheals oaths and a few other things mean basically Drakul-Lucifer Dracula-son of the devil.(really not sure what happened to that thread, nom nom monster prbobly)
Get back to you on the rest in a bit.
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: jonas on August 25, 2017, 06:07:38 PM ---1it doesn't have to be rooted in angelic power, but isn't it? Drakul in the DF I think is literally Lucifer trapped in a mortal vessel without his power
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Nice explanation for Michael's description of Mavra, but I'm afraid it doesn't hold together. We know Lucifer is not deprived of his power, because he sponsored the Hellfire pentagram traps in Small Favor - Uriel confirmed Harry's deduction that energy expenditure on that level had to indicate an archangel 'cheated' to involve himself, by saying that was what gave him room to balance the scales by granting Harry soulfire.
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--- Quote from: Snark Knight on August 25, 2017, 06:32:09 PM ---Nice explanation for Michael's description of Mavra, but I'm afraid it doesn't hold together. We know Lucifer is not deprived of his power, because he sponsored the Hellfire pentagram traps in Small Favor - Uriel confirmed Harry's deduction that energy expenditure on that level had to indicate an archangel 'cheated' to involve himself, by saying that was what gave him room to balance the scales by granting Harry soulfire.
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Agreed, for the same evidence.
My own personal theory at this point is that Drakul was an Outsider that got trapped in human form via unique Shenanigans, and that Dracula was to make contact and things spiraled out of control. But I have no actual proof of that, and there's nothing to say that whatever Power Dracula was reaching for was actually related to Drakul's origins.
jonas:
--- Quote from: Snark Knight on August 25, 2017, 06:32:09 PM ---Nice explanation for Michael's description of Mavra, but I'm afraid it doesn't hold together. We know Lucifer is not deprived of his power, because he sponsored the Hellfire pentagram traps in Small Favor - Uriel confirmed Harry's deduction that energy expenditure on that level had to indicate an archangel 'cheated' to involve himself, by saying that was what gave him room to balance the scales by granting Harry soulfire.
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Never said his power wasn't there, just that' its' not with him
--- Quote ---@GiftedMonster Though for the record, the Dresden universe angels have been around since before time was a Thing. #TemporalHipsters
As he was quickly signing books, I figured I wouldn't be able to get a long answer out of him, so I shot for a yes no question - "Does Satan rule hell like Hades rules his place?" was what I tried to ask, but as soon as I said "Does Satan rule hell-" he frowned and said no. But then he heard the rest of my question and elaborated. I think I remember his answer verbatim: "Hades is like the CEO of his own small company, sort of. Satan is more like an officer of a sprawling multinational conglomerate - the hierarchy of hell operates exactly like a corporation, obviously" By 'an officer', I assume he meant CEO, what with being a fallen archangel and all, but the word he used was officer.
Q: Difference between the Fallen and other creatures from Hell?
A: Fallen are like corporate – they’ve got the backing of an organization.
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And another I can't find that talks about how the fallen might only 'think' their the original beings. Which i'd point out if a greek woman was really what Lasciel originally looked like then Human's would have to always been a part of creation which Isn't true per the dragon's being annoyed they moved into such a position of importance when they arrived. So the idea a dragon being an angel from the dino age makes some sense, Lucifer being the fallen snake makes more so.
But to get back to the above, It point's out Lucifer isn't really in charge. As an officer he can approve a requisition 'form' without actually holding the power itself. and unlike what Uriel did electively, What Nic did was directly through a spell format. It wasn't that much different then a summoning of his power. Even an outsider like Hwwbh who has no power 'here' can make contact through sponsorship.
Going back to the Mortal body, dragon power comparison, Ferro isn't capable of all his earth shattering might as a dragon when he took on a lesser form, he was still connected to his power. but he wasn't wearing it. I'd compare it favorably of making or possessing the ability to create or have something akin to the fae knights free willed mantles but not as your true/main form.(something Baba Yaga most certainly did with the walking stick). So he's stuck in a form connected to his power, but not His form.
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