The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
Mira:
--- Quote from: magnuskn on August 14, 2017, 07:56:47 PM ---There is much more acceptance and trust, though. Compare and contrast with Butters.
--- End quote ---
Yes and no, Butters was more frustrated than anything because children were disappearing. He was also listening to Bob who had ample reason not to trust anyone connected with the Winter Court.. I might add that there is little evidence that Murphy did much to change his mind in that year.. However once the shit hit the fan and Murphy was down, Butters swiftly came around and saw what an ass he had been... Oh and I might add one reason that incident took place is lack of trust in Harry on Murphy's part...
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: Mira on August 14, 2017, 08:59:12 PM --- Yes and no, Butters was more frustrated than anything because children were disappearing. He was also listening to Bob who had ample reason not to trust anyone connected with the Winter Court.. I might add that there is little evidence that Murphy did much to change his mind in that year.. However once the shit hit the fan and Murphy was down, Butters swiftly came around and saw what an ass he had been... Oh and I might add one reason that incident took place is lack of trust in Harry on Murphy's part...
--- End quote ---
That is simply not true.
It's entirely Butters' distrust of Dresden that creates the incident.
Butters the one who secretly put a tracking and listening device on Dresden.
Butters is the one who thought Dresden was going to turn on them.
Butters is the one who fled to the Swords.
Meanwhile, Murphy is only involved at all because she shows complete trust in Dresden. He comes to her and asks her to walk into Hades with him, surrounded by literal demons and monsters, then tells her that he can't tell her crucial parts of the plan, and she instantly and completely accepts that.
That is complete, unflinching trust.
Smaug with OCD:
--- Quote from: DonBugen on August 14, 2017, 08:02:35 PM ---I just can't shake off the feeling that someone in Dresden's crew is more than they seem - either infected by Nemesis, or holding a Coin, or even just a run-of-the-mill traitor. And pre-Ghost Story, Karrin obviously isn't addled, otherwise we couldn't get the short story Aftermath.
But after...
I dunno. She seems to be doing big, major things without seemingly intending to. Especially in Skin Game, where she didn't do a *thing* which helped Dresden. If not for Uriel's completely unanticipated intervention, she would have effectively sabotaged Dresden entirely - introduced Butters and given him the opportunity to get involved, destroyed a Sword, and lost Dresden the backup he needed. If Karrin was a traitor, whose #1 priority is keeping under cover, and #2 priority is to sabotage Dresden, this is exactly how she'd act.
Harry should listen more to his subconscious. Maybe when it gave him the dream about Karrin and Lasciel killing him, it wasn't ONLY warning about Lasciel.
--- End quote ---
There are problems with this, however, at least in reference to Karin being Nemfected. Cold Days and Cold Case dealt heavily with the Outsider forces, and provided excellent opportunities for backstabery. Some Nemesis agents/appendages even try their hand at it. But! On the island, in the final moments, we have Mab present. We have Harry in attendance... and we have a selection of team Dresden. Everyone is in position to take down multiple major players on the side of reality, Karin especially. But she, along with the others present, don't.
Cold Days is similar with Ramirez. Though he wouldn't have been quite as effective, he could have backstabbed Molly before she knew what he was doing. He could have taken her head off from behind with his warden sword and butchered her. She would have - being an immortal - eventually put herself back together. But, it would have taken time. Cold Days showed us that the near future is what is important. We are approaching - if not end game - a major skirmish in the war, and Mab needs all hands on deck. If Molly were taken out... that wouldn't happen. In conclusion!
I suggest that - at least up through Skin Game - everyone present on Demonreach during Cold Days, along with Ramirez - is clean of Nemfection.
That includes Karin.
Thoughts?
That being said, I completely agree that people aren't telling Dresden - and by extension us - everything. And, if there isn't at least one Nemfected individual in Harry's group... I'll eat Harry's hat.
magnuskn:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on August 14, 2017, 09:24:40 PM ---That is simply not true.
It's entirely Butters' distrust of Dresden that creates the incident.
Butters the one who secretly put a tracking and listening device on Dresden.
Butters is the one who thought Dresden was going to turn on them.
Butters is the one who fled to the Swords.
Meanwhile, Murphy is only involved at all because she shows complete trust in Dresden. He comes to her and asks her to walk into Hades with him, surrounded by literal demons and monsters, then tells her that he can't tell her crucial parts of the plan, and she instantly and completely accepts that.
That is complete, unflinching trust.
--- End quote ---
Summed it up perfectly.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: Smaug with OCD on August 14, 2017, 10:04:44 PM ---There are problems with this, however, at least in reference to Karin being Nemfected. Cold Days and Cold Case dealt heavily with the Outsider forces, and provided excellent opportunities for backstabery. Some Nemesis agents/appendages even try their hand at it. But! On the island, in the final moments, we have Mab present. We have Harry in attendance... and we have a selection of team Dresden. Everyone is in position to take down multiple major players on the side of reality, Karin especially. But she, along with the others present, don't.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, that's always been my biggest argument against Murphy being a traitor. As Harry's most trusted companion, she has had soooooooo many opportunities to completely screw over the side of reality. But every action she's taken has been to help Harry defend reality. In Cold Days alone, there are six or seven points where, through simple inaction, Murphy could've handed the game to the Outsiders and not even blown her cover.
That she didn't pretty much clears her entirely.
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