The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
Mira:
--- Quote ---You mean during the year that Mab had kept him prisoner and been actively modifying all communications specifically to instill Mistrust in his allies (like Butters). Or do you mean when she disabused him of it On Stage in SG??
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Who is "she" Murphy or Mab?
. Read pages 26 through 30 of Skin Game, Murphy gives Harry the big lecture about isolating himself from his friends... Her attitude is that Harry purposely did that, and she is worried about him.. If she knew the skinny, she wouldn't have given the lecture..
--- Quote ---You seem to be projecting motivation there. He appeard to lay out everything out to murphy in the off-screen moments prior to SG Ch 2. You are assuming that a) harry didnt mention Mabs interference, b) that she didnt ask, and c) that IF she didnt ask it was from a lack of Caring about him rather than trusting him to have his secrets (which is precisely what she was doing the entire book).
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Apparently he didn't lay anything out and Murphy didn't ask, again read pages 26 -30.. A] No, it appears that Harry didn't mention Mab.. B] From the text, no, Murphy didn't ask, she assumed some psychological explanation about Harry isolating himself on the island from his friends and family on purpose.. It may not be a lack of caring, but it is idiotic amateur psychologist at work.. C] Bingo, if she truly trusted him to have his secrets... Then she'd truly trust him to have a good reason for those secrets, ergo not give him shit in the form of a guilt trip about his friends being so concerned because he purposely isolated himself on Demonreach for a year... Just a "missed you Harry what's the plan?" Would do nicely.if she truly trusted him...
deflated:
--- Quote from: DonBugen on August 17, 2017, 07:13:30 PM ---Sometimes, I suspect that Knights are chosen not because they already are good people, but that they have the potential to be good people.
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Uriel explicitly states that his interest in the events of SG was to offer the chance redemption. I'd be very surprised if opportunities for growth, improvement and undoing mistakes wasn't behind all of the actions of TWG's agents.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Quantus on August 17, 2017, 12:16:07 PM ---I mean, I thought Titania confirmed it; what else would make her admit that her daughter had to die? And we have WOJ that Sidhe of queen or Erlking level shouldnt be capable of /considering/ destroying the Natural Order.
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No doubt there was something radically wrong with Aurora. But I'm not absolutely sure it was Nemfection. IIRC, all Titania said to Harry was something to the effect of "I know what she had become", or something along those lines. Not specific.
I'm not saying it wasn't Nemfection, either, I'm just saying I'm not convinced either way.
Con:
Hmmm I'm half and half on Murphy at the moment but to be honest, it started for me when she became "fun buddies" with a mass murdering mercenary. It seemed like such a hypocrisy.
Recently though Murphy has had almost as much of a risk of losing her soul as Harry particularly during Ghost Story. Working with Marcone, preparing to take vigilante justice on the people who shot up her house.
Seems like she made a deal with the devil herself to save her city as much as Harry did to save his daughter.
Whether or not she's been supportive of Harry or adding to his guilt trip. I've seen evidence of both. Cold Days she was pretty cautious and wary of Harry.
Skin Game though she gave Butters a dressing down, for his suspiscions, and acknowledged that Dresden was fighting for his soul, she was also considerably relieved when Harry came back from talking with Michael and was a bit more like his old self.
Let's not forget ID Harry's insights into Murphy's psyche regarding Harry. She's got a few pent up issue's in regards to relationships so judges herself harshly on them:
1. Dropkick deadbeat older husband who was dying of cancer and didn't tell her.
2. Second husband who wanted a family which she didn't, which anyone would have mixed feelings and doubts about, who then left her and went for her younger, better looking, bit of a ditz of a little sister.
3.International mass murdering supernatual assassin who killed the man she love's.
4. Wizard Winter Knight with lot of tension history, possibly loosing his soul and becoming Mab's personal hit man.
Lotta baggage their.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Mira on August 17, 2017, 08:51:30 PM --- Who is "she" Murphy or Mab?
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Murphy disabused butters of yes distrust, or at least made a damn strong effort. Which is a far cry from piling on his distrust or intentionally standing aside, you you suggested.
[/quote]
. Read pages 26 through 30 of Skin Game, Murphy gives Harry the big lecture about isolating himself from his friends... Her attitude is that Harry purposely did that, and she is worried about him.. If she knew the skinny, she wouldn't have given the lecture..
--- Quote ---Looking at them right now. She is WORRIED about him, yes. Precisely! Which is a far cry from the complete lack of caring you were basing your argument on.
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Apparently he didn't lay anything out and Murphy didn't ask, again read pages 26 -30.. A] No, it appears that Harry didn't mention Mab..
[/quote]
My whole point is that we DONT get the whole conversation. You cannot start drawing conclusions from what Murphy DIDNT say when you dont have any clue what she did or didnt say except for the very end of the conversation.
--- Quote ---B] From the text, no, Murphy didn't ask, she assumed some psychological explanation about Harry isolating himself on the island from his friends and family on purpose..
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And she wasnt wrong. And she helped him. Still not getting this Kick-him-while-he's-Down animosity you want to be there?
--- Quote ---It may not be a lack of caring, but it is idiotic amateur psychologist at work..
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Im not saying that Michael didnt do a much better job a few chapters later (by calling harry an arrogant dope), but you simply cant point to scenes of her trying to be a good friend and say that's evidence of her not caring or not wanting to be his friend.
--- Quote ---C] Bingo, if she truly trusted him to have his secrets...
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Which she /did/, every step of the way.
--- Quote ---Then she'd truly trust him to have a good reason for those secrets,
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Which she /did/, every step of the way.
--- Quote ---ergo not give him shit in the form of a guilt trip about his friends being so concerned because he purposely isolated himself on Demonreach for a year...
--- End quote ---
Here's where you go off the rails, I think. Looking at it right now and that's not even close to what happened. They are both talking about the future, about whether he'll keep his pets, ever actually try to be a father, all that good stuff that may or may not be possible after the current crisis. That's kind off what good friends do. Reminding somebody that they have a support structure is not a guilt trip.
--- Quote ---Just a "missed you Harry what's the plan?" Would do nicely.if she truly trusted him...
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I kind of expect the "missed you Harry whats the plan" to happen closer to the beginning of the conversation, maybe near the opening of the door, and not at the very end which is all we saw.
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