The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Murphy in Peace Talks (WoJ spoilers)
Gman:
--- Quote from: DonBugen on August 15, 2017, 07:57:09 PM ---How do you feel about Murph from Ghost Story onward, with her working in Marcone’s organization, allying with the White Court, and trying to fight the darkness in a far more desperate situation than she’s ever been in before? Most of what you mention is pre-Ghost Story Murphy. Do you feel that she’s really the same person?
True, I don’t see her flat-out betraying and trying to kill Harry. But I can see her suddenly motivated to completely turn against his wishes and sabotage a mission all in a vain attempt to keep him safe. Oh, wait – that’s already happened.
Nobody just suddenly starts dressing in black and cackling maniacally. The road to hell is a gentle, gradual slope, and I think that Karrin’s story has always been one of slow self-destruction. It’s started long before Changes, but everything afterward really kicked things into high gear. Dresden’s fear of what would happen to her if her shield was taken away seems to be happening. What’s book 20 going to look like?
EDIT: Let me just say that I hope you’re right. I really do want Murph to be Dresden’s strong, stalwart companion; the one who’s by his side through thick and thin, the vanilla mortal with the guts and smarts to take on anything that comes to her. But I guess I’m getting cynical, and I just doubt it could last.
--- End quote ---
Murphy worked with Marcone, not for him. Just as the US and the British worked with Stalin against Hitler. Sometimes you can't choose your allies.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Gman on August 16, 2017, 07:09:00 AM ---Murphy worked with Marcone, not for him. Just as the US and the British worked with Stalin against Hitler. Sometimes you can't choose your allies.
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Agreed. Marcone was clearly the stronger partner in most respects, but he wouldnt have to cede her territory in exchange for what amounted to advice, as he did (by proxy) in GS.
Mr. Death:
Mira, her bringing the Sword along has absolutely nothing to do with her not trusting Harry.
Agreeing to walk into Hades with him? That is trusting Harry.
Agreeing to do so even when it means walking alongside Nicodemus? That is trusting Harry.
Agreeing to do so even when Harry outright tells her that he can't tell her everything about his plan? That is trusting Harry.
Those are the pertinent actions she takes in Skin Game. Her bringing and using the Sword has nothing to do with trust.
And LordDresden2, Cold Days was an endgame. The enemy threw a boatload of its resources at it, and Murphy could've turned the tide in their favor numerous times through the smallest, undetectable actions that would not even have blown her cover.
Besides, what kind of supernatural nasty would keep up the ruse for two years, acting exactly like Murphy would in every way, and not doing anything once that's suspicious?
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Mr. Death on August 16, 2017, 12:46:05 PM ---Besides, what kind of supernatural nasty would keep up the ruse for two years, acting exactly like Murphy would in every way, and not doing anything once that's suspicious?
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Purely a devil's advocate here, but Maeve kept it up for quite a while before anyone suspected. Aurora too, likely.
Mr. Death:
--- Quote from: Quantus on August 16, 2017, 12:49:04 PM ---Purely a devil's advocate here, but Maeve kept it up for quite a while before anyone suspected. Aurora too, likely.
--- End quote ---
Positions were way different. Both of them were rulers, and rulers don't tend to be questioned or looked at too closely by their followers. How many kings and queens get away with all kinds of outlandish shit because they're wearing the crown and will smite anyone who questions what they're doing?
The people who would know what to look for (Mab and Titania) did know that something was wrong because they were acting wrong.
Maeve's deception in particular depended entirely on people assuming she couldn't lie. Maeve was a terrible liar who only got away with it because people assumed it was literally impossible for her to lie. I mean, look at the conversation in Proven Guilty -- Fix's immediate reaction to what Maeve said is "she's lying." The only reason he believes her is because Dresden points out she is incapable of lying, and if you read the conversation now, she's giggling like a schoolgirl at the ability to lie. She not only doesn't have a pokerface, she's gleefully reveling in telling a direct lie to Harry and Fix's faces.
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