The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
WAG on murphyonic effect
Quantus:
--- Quote from: jonas on August 08, 2017, 07:15:56 PM ---Instead of throwing me another hypothetical for us to argue about, what about just the singular point made? Wizardy trumps technology, not the other way around.
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Calm down, Im not deflecting, Im just loosing track of what point you are trying to make.
So in that specific instance the population is not going to be able to reach the point where all Science goes out the window (what you describe, correct?) due to a global Murphionic blanket. Certainly not in the 3000-sih years that Magic can be expected to retain issued with technology.
--- Quote ---That would imply a being capable of altering magic and how it interacts with mortals itself. Kinda steps on the toes of the woj magic has no 'consciousness' connected to it. I see no other way a being could take such control over the very fabric of mortal magic itself. I mean the idea it used to be controlled by an entity gets in a loop hole, but actively defines it? If anything TWG and his order of business seems to take precedent upon magic, especially when you compare mortal lawbreakers with those immortals that define the balance.
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I...think that was essentially my same point. The WOJ about magic not having a controlling consciousness is good additional support, not an angle Id considered.
--- Quote ---I think my theory covers all those things you mention, except fire, am I missing a passage on fire? Milk, warts, technology... fire? ???
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It's from the original WOJ that talked about the effects changing, and also in GS
--- Quote ---Dragon-Con @2:50
As technology advances, will wizards become marginalized?
It sort of depends on where magic goes. Magic wasn’t always screwing up post WW2 tech. Before WW2 magic had other effects. It sorta changes slowly over time, and about every 3 centuries it rolls over into something else. At one time, instead of magic making machines flip out it made cream go bad. Before that magic made weird molls on your skin and fire would burn slightly different colors when you were around it. I do mention this in Ghost story (in passing). It’s not really aware or something like that, but it is something that changes along with the people who use it.
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--- Quote from: GS Ch.14 ---Three hundred years ago, magical talents screwed up other things—like causing candle flames to burn in strange colors and milk to instantly sour (which had to be hell on any wizard who wanted to bake anything). A couple of hundred years before that, exposure to magic often had odd effects on a person’s skin, creating the famous blemishes that had become known as the devil’s mark. Centuries from now, who knows? Maybe magic will have the side effect of making you really good-looking and popular with the opposite sex—but I’m not holding my breath.
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Rasins:
Yeah, I don't think it's so much a directed thing as much as the weakness for any "group". As someone said, anyone with power has a limitation. Fae - Iron, Vamps - sun/love, Mortal practitioners - murphionic effect.
Quantus:
Although the flip side is that in the last few decades at least the Murphionic effect has become a big part of the Cultural Denial of the vanilla world: the more they rely on technology to offer "proof" of what exists, the more the lack of technological "proof" appears to Prove the Absence in the collective mind.
jonas:
--- Quote from: Quantus on August 08, 2017, 07:25:37 PM ---Calm down, Im not deflecting, Im just loosing track of what point you are trying to make.
--- End quote ---
I am :)
--- Quote ---So in that specific instance the population is not going to be able to reach the point where all Science goes out the window (what you describe, correct?) due to a global Murphionic blanket. Certainly not in the 3000-sih years that Magic can be expected to retain issued with technology.
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I am slightly confused. I just meant if the population turned wizards overnight, say an Aleran like sister world migrates to the DF and all of them can use magic, inexplicably bringing this excess to the masses already alive here, then tech isn't going to remain relevant to most of civilization. It becomes obsolete in the face of wizardy. Not vice versa.
--- Quote ---I...think that was essentially my same point. The WOJ about magic not having a controlling consciousness is good additional support, not an angle Id considered.
It's from the original WOJ that talked about the effects changing, and also in GS
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Oh cool, something to research on ::)
Quantus:
--- Quote from: jonas on August 08, 2017, 07:32:36 PM --- I am slightly confused. I just meant if the population turned wizards overnight, say an Aleran like sister world migrates to the DF and all of them can use magic, inexplicably bringing this excess to the masses already alive here, then tech isn't going to remain relevant to most of civilization. It becomes obsolete in the face of wizardy. Not vice versa.
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In that sort of instance I entirely agree, assuming that Magic didnt find some other thing to differentiate on, and allowing for technological advances that could theoretically combat the Murphionic effects (like how the Raith's can afford lighting systems that can survive a Wizard's Duel.
What threw me for a loop was that I was still addressing Griff's theory that Hecate and/or the Sidhe had specifically engineered the Murphionic field to limit the capabilities of mortal practitioners (which I consider unlikely). I missed the topic jump to the hypothetical "All Mortal are Wizards" concept and so lost track of the breadcrumbs when we jumped to a new hypothetical.
On that topic, I have to real reasoning but I tend to think that if All mortal were Wizards, the effect would shift to something else (barring transitional time). Or, if Magic and Tech had evolved side-by-side there would be a lot less internal conflict and/or the global impression that Magic and Science are innately antagonistic, so there'd either be No murphionic effect, or it would be something unrelated to tech. But as I said I dont have a great argument for it. Closest thing I can think of is the whole Fae Hate Iron theory as it being an issue with legacy opinions that Iron is symbolically UnNatural, I see this as possibly a similar mechanism.
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