The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers

Evocation/Elements

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Quantus:

--- Quote from: Mr. Death on July 31, 2017, 03:02:06 PM ---Rituals are thaumaturgy. Evocation is moving energy on the fly, while thaumaturgy is taking your time and directing it in a ritual. It's not just about the symbolic link.

As the RPG lays out the differences:
So the difference is not just that thaumaturgy needs a symbolic link (and not all types of thaumaturgy do -- crafting, psychomancy and biomancy are all subsets of thaumaturgy that don't have necessary symbolic links because you're working directly on the subject). The difference is the time and the nature of the constructs involved.

Evocation: Simple, instant energy movement.
Thaumaturgy: Complex, lengthy constructed spells.

--- End quote ---
Ill admit Ive always hated the way the first DFRPG modeled (I see it as over-simplified) magic into those two buckets.  While it was a justifiable streamlining of a rules-set it never seemed to fit the books very well, and then broke down as a rule-set when it had to introduce "Evo-thaum" to explain all the various things that never fit well. 

Mr. Death:

--- Quote from: Quantus on July 31, 2017, 03:08:41 PM ---Ill admit Ive always hated the way the first DFRPG modeled (I see it as over-simplified) magic into those two buckets.  While it was a justifiable streamlining of a rules-set it never seemed to fit the books very well, and then broke down as a rule-set when it had to introduce "Evo-thaum" to explain all the various things that never fit well.

--- End quote ---
It's better to look at it as Evocation is a very narrow thing (instant movement of energy), while everything else is Thaumaturgy, which is just a broader category. In some settings, it's an overall term for any magic (i.e., Discworld's mention of the 'thaum' as the smallest unit of magic).

If you want to look in the regular books, though, Harry refers to hit "dusting for magic prints" spell in White Night as thaumaturgy (or at least, that he's digging through his thaumaturgy tool box to prepare it), and it has nothing to do with symbolic links:


--- Quote ---I set the box on the floor and opened it. "I've been teaching my
apprentice thaumaturgy. We have to go out to the country
sometimes, for safety's sake." I rummaged through the box and
finally drew out a plastic test tube full of metallic grains. "I just
tossed things into a grocery sack for the first couple of weeks, but
it was easier to put together a more permanent mobile kit."
"What's that?" Murphy asked.
"Copper filings," I said. "They conduct energy. If there's some
kind of pattern here, I might be able to make it out."
"Ah. You're dusting for prints," Murphy said.
"Pretty much, yeah." I pulled a lump of chalk out of my duster's
pocket and squatted to draw a very faint circle on the carpet. I
willed it closed as I completed the circle, and felt it spring to life, an
invisible screen of power that kept random energies away from
me and focused my own magic. The spell was a delicate one, for
me anyway, and trying to use it without a circle would have been
like trying to light a match in a hurricane.
--- End quote ---

Quantus:

--- Quote from: Mr. Death on July 31, 2017, 03:14:14 PM ---It's better to look at it as Evocation is a very narrow thing (instant movement of energy), while everything else is Thaumaturgy, which is just a broader category. In some settings, it's an overall term for any magic (i.e., Discworld's mention of the 'thaum' as the smallest unit of magic).

If you want to look in the regular books, though, Harry refers to hit "dusting for magic prints" spell in White Night as thaumaturgy (or at least, that he's digging through his thaumaturgy tool box to prepare it), and it has nothing to do with symbolic links:

--- End quote ---
The problem with that is that Thaumaturgy is also fundamentally the Movement of Energy too.  It's how all his tracking spells work for example.  In fact Id argue that ALL magic, with the possible exception of Pure Will actions like gods can do, would qualify as "movement of energy" making that a non-distinction. 

Mr. Death:

--- Quote from: Quantus on July 31, 2017, 03:25:45 PM ---The problem with that is that Thaumaturgy is also fundamentally the Movement of Energy too.  It's how all his tracking spells work for example.  In fact Id argue that ALL magic, with the possible exception of Pure Will actions like gods can do, would qualify as "movement of energy" making that a non-distinction.

--- End quote ---
I didn't say Evocation was movement of energy. I said it was "instant" movement of energy, though I suppose I should've added, "line of sight" as well. It's moving the elements in the most direct way.

I mean, if you want to get broad enough, literally everything that happens can be classified as movement of energy.

My point was, Evocation is narrow in that it's on-the-fly magic you do right here, right now without setting it up, while thaumaturgy is slower, more complex, carefully directed magic that you need to do some prep work for.

Evocation is throwing a rock because you want it out of the way right now. Thaumaturgy is placing dozens of rocks over the course of the day because you're decorating your garden.

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