The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
luccio's action
KurtinStGeorge:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on July 30, 2017, 03:51:09 AM ---Oh, Donald had tons of integrity left by the early books. Intolerant, yes. An ass, oh yes. But integrity out the wazoo. He just directed it badly because he was more or less a burn out after a century of fighting dirty wars and monsters.
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Yes to this, and Morgan is (as best I can recall) supposed to a little over 100 when the series starts. He fought in the First World War. So Morgan becomes Luccio's apprentice something like 30 - 35 years after the events in Fist Full of Warlocks. That's plenty of time for her attitudes about life to have hardened and for her to believe in the need to encourage toughness (for lack of a better term) in those she would train to follow her. Not that Luccio isn't strong in this story but she is definitely in transition to the Luccio we meet in Dead Beat.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: KurtinStGeorge on August 01, 2017, 08:27:09 AM ---Yes to this, and Morgan is (as best I can recall) supposed to a little over 100 when the series starts. He fought in the First World War. So Morgan becomes Luccio's apprentice something like 30 - 35 years after the events in Fist Full of Warlocks. That's plenty of time for her attitudes about life to have hardened and for her to believe in the need to encourage toughness (for lack of a better term) in those she would train to follow her. Not that Luccio isn't strong in this story but she is definitely in transition to the Luccio we meet in Dead Beat.
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Also the weight of Command. She's still just a Warden in FFW, once she actually takes over the Wardens I suspect her perspectives would shift somewhat. And that's the purely mundane weight of command, not even considering that sorts of Secret Arcane Knowledge that might be reserved for those special posts like the Capt. or a SC member, or might have simply been passed down from Her predecessor McCoy.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 31, 2017, 03:05:07 PM ---Im referring to his willful attempted entrapment at the request of the Merlin in SK, the bit that so shocked Luccio when she learned about it in DB. Once a law enforcement officer starts trying to fabricate evidence to support their foregone beliefs, they've relinquished any integrity they may once have had, and Morgan is no exception. At least to my mind.
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Morgan thought he was upholding the law. That's my point, he looked at Harry and saw the BTK killer, or the Son of Sam, waiting to kill again. Kemmler Jr.
His judgement was completely shot by then, but he genuinely believed he was doing right and in fact doing his duty. It wasn't lack of integrity but lack of perception and understanding.
Remember, he saved Harry's life in one of the early books, precisely because of that same integrity.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: LordDresden2 on August 02, 2017, 04:33:28 AM ---Morgan thought he was upholding the law. That's my point, he looked at Harry and saw the BTK killer, or the Son of Sam, waiting to kill again. Kemmler Jr.
His judgement was completely shot by then, but he genuinely believed he was doing right and in fact doing his duty. It wasn't lack of integrity but lack of perception and understanding.
Remember, he saved Harry's life in one of the early books, precisely because of that same integrity.
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I think we are operating on wildly different definitions of Integrity then. He had good intentions. Swell. The Road to Hell is paved in them (per WOJ even :P). He also attempted to entrap a man who was innocent in the eyes of the Law, just so he could be turned over to monsters and eaten for political expediency, acting out of his own fear and grief. The fact that he personally thought the man was terrible and maybe should die doesnt make any less of a dishonorable act. He was a cop who was trying to plant evidence and frame a suspect. That doesnt leave one with any claim of Integrity. He could still try to claim that he'd sacrificed his Integrity for the greater good if he wanted, but the integrity was long gone.
LordDresden2:
--- Quote from: Quantus on August 02, 2017, 11:56:41 AM ---I think we are operating on wildly different definitions of Integrity then. He had good intentions. Swell. The Road to Hell is paved in them (per WOJ even :P). He also attempted to entrap a man who was innocent in the eyes of the Law, just so he could be turned over to monsters and eaten for political expediency, acting out of his own fear and grief.
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As I said, his judgement was shot and worthless by that point. But he didn't take the easy way, he did what he thought was right. He was ready to sacrifice a guilty man (as he saw it) for the same reason he was later willing to die for the Council in Turn Coat, or lie to the Council to protect it from civil war. (Here again, his judgement is at least questionable.)
He fully expected Harry to fall for the trap, because he that's that what the kind of person he thought Harry was would do. Note than when it didn't work, he didn't murder Harry on the spot, or try to. He was just caught off-balance and not sure how to react.
Don't confuse personal integrity with personal morality or good judgement. They are different things. A villain can be heavy with integrity. Marcone has integrity, but that doesn't make him a good guy. Lara has a certain amount of personal integrity, but that doesn't make her less of a monster.
--- Quote ---
The fact that he personally thought the man was terrible and maybe should die doesnt make any less of a dishonorable act. He was a cop who was trying to plant evidence and frame a suspect.
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He didn't think Harryt was terrible, he thought Harry was an iminent threat to the lives and sanity of innocent people and the survival of the Council. It was well beyond 'terrible guy'.
He didn't plant any evidence. Nor did he try to frame Harry. He tried to tempt Harry into stepping over the line, so arguably entrapment, yes.
Harry was, in his own way, doing the same thing Morgan did when he shot Corpsetaker-in-Luccio later. Harry was lucky/wise enough that it turned out he was right to shoot the woman who he could not really know was actually Corpsetaker. Even Harry was not 100% sure himself when he shot the woman in question.
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