The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Mab's Plans
jonas:
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 26, 2017, 02:38:12 PM ---That's not really a loophole in itself, there still needs to be a workable "Exit Condition." And simple things like "Death" dont do it, apparently. :P
--- End quote ---
well, either he was dead, in which case he didn't have the mantle in actual death, it stayed with his body or he wasn't dead. that's the very definition of a loop hole. it's not 'exitable work condition' cause why would he have that already? Makes it too easy. It was never said he must stay WK, it was said he must BE winter knight.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: jonas on July 26, 2017, 02:45:41 PM ---well, either he was dead, in which case he didn't have the mantle in actual death, it stayed with his body or he wasn't dead. that's the very definition of a loop hole. it's not 'exitable work condition' cause why would he have that already? Makes it too easy. It was never said he must stay WK, it was said he must BE winter knight.
--- End quote ---
Two things:
1)If your proposed exit condition is Death, that's fine. But just because the bargain did not specifically say "Service for All Time" or some such does not mean that there is actually any way to get out of it and survive. I mean, we know bleeding out on the Stone Table will technically remove the Mantle from him, as will getting Eaten by Mother Winter, but that not really what we're looking for here.
2)Death is very explicitly not that kind of Black&White scenario, there is a whole lot of Grey there according to Mab, Uriel, and even Bob. All our best sources of information.
jonas:
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 26, 2017, 02:51:58 PM ---Two things:
1)If your proposed exit condition is Death, that's fine. But just because the bargain did not specifically say "Service for All Time" or some such does not mean that there is actually any way to get out of it and survive. I mean, we know bleeding out on the Stone Table will technically remove the Mantle from him, as will getting Eaten by Mother Winter, but that not really what we're looking for here.
2)Death is very explicitly not that kind of Black&White scenario, there is a whole lot of Grey there according to Mab, Uriel, and even Bob. All our best sources of information.
--- End quote ---
But by what logic are you using to say that isn't a true fact of the bargain? Your saying he can't get out of it in one piece, that's speculative. It's a provable fact fae keep the letter of the law, and the letter doesn't say he can't just quit. He might need the right knowledge of how to do so. But nothing you have so far said excludes the fact he can leave or the letter of the bargain is to be the WK, not serve a specific tenure.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: jonas on July 26, 2017, 02:56:40 PM ---But by what logic are you using to say that isn't a true fact of the bargain? Your saying he can't get out of it in one piece, that's speculative. It's a provable fact fae keep the letter of the law, and the letter doesn't say he can't just quit. He might need the right knowledge of how to do so. But nothing you have so far said excludes the fact he can leave or the letter of the bargain is to be the WK, not serve a specific tenure.
--- End quote ---
No, Im not saying that at all. Im just saying that there is a difference between say "it's Possible" and actually saying How it's possible.
My theory* for How is that he'll be able to leverage the different limitations of his SK bargain with Mab for Three Favors (which per WOJ is still in play) and the Bargain for his service as a Winter Knight. She cannot order him to harm a loved one, but if she REALLY REALLY needs to she might be forced to use that Final Favor. And by A strict legalese reading of it, the argument can be made that once the third favor is used up it will wipe ALL current bargains he has with the Fae, including bargains that were made after the fact (ie the Knighthood Bargain)
Sorry, I thought Id posted the theory in this thread already, but it must have been one of the other recent ones.
Cant find the WOJ confirming that the 3rd favor was technically still in play, but here's the one about Death getting you out of the Knighthood.
--- Quote ---2010 Bitten by Books Q&A:
#318 “Does Dresden’s current condition mean that the Knights power has flowed back to Mab?”
That’s one of those questions that will be more fun to answer in the book. :)
But merely being dead does /not/ necessarily get you out of promises to Mab all by itself. I mean, come on. Like she’s never heard THAT lame excuse before… :)
--- End quote ---
MacPhoenix:
Just wanted to say this is gold guys.
It seems this thread was duplicated some how, but we will just flow with it.
I didn't mean Mother Winter left off being Winter; she just lost some of her influence on the mortal world. I. E... that is what I thought was meant by retired.
I never thought of the courts actually being destroyed. I wonder if that would mean Harry and Molly would have to you know... "save the species". ;) ;)
What ever he has to do for Mother Winter can't be good, or at least not good for Harry's health.
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