The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Mortal Government Knowledge of Magic
Shift8:
--- Quote from: huangjimmy108 on July 20, 2017, 10:31:42 AM ---This is not something new. People has known all along.
Who have not heard of strange supernatural happenings?
That is that creepy house over there. That particular small town is spooky. There are strange sounds in that neighbourhood at night and so on.
People know, but nobody really investigates and do something about what they know or suspect. They don't even talk about it. The majority pretends they do not know even if they do, and try to forget the stuff ASAP. Rudolph's strong denial is just an extreme, but most people in the DV is like that to an extent.
Out of sight, out of mind. And I suspect in the hindbrain of your average humankind lurks the fear of supernatural so deep that it subconsciously urge humanity away from all things supernatural as a survival mechanism. Much like the fear of the darkness. You need a strong act of will to resist this aversion, at least in the beginning until one manage to adapt. Most of the time the adaptation process is rather painful at best and deadly at worse.
As long as the supernatural does not flaunt themselves in broad daylight and force vanilla mortals to a corner, most vanilla are only too happy to let things be. So yes, even if there are clues left behind, the attack in changes will be covered up. The supernatural has been leaving clues behind for any willing vanilla all this time, but very very few actually follow the thread. In Harry's almost 20 years of wizarding career, only Murphy, Susan, Marcone, the alphas and possibly Hendricks and Valmont whom willingly and knowingly jump into the pool that is the supernatural world. Not very many, Butters does not count, because he is dragged into it kicking and screaming. The others, like the Carpenter family are rather supernatural themselves and are already involved in this world to begin with.
A Vanilla capacity for denial is extremely powerful in the DV.
The others, like Rawlins, Micky Mallone and the SI people knows spooky stuff exist, but they kept quiet about it. . I think very very few vanilla truly ignorant about the supernatural. Knowing is one thing, acknowledging it however is another matter.
--- End quote ---
Sorry man but these are awful comparisons.
You are comparing suspicious activity or pure superstition to a major public incident. You are also comparing the low-leve operations of SI with few direct actors to an incident that was loud, deadly, and littered with physical evidence for others to see. These are not fair comparisons what so ever. Notice that I havent questioned the other events in the series, but specifically this one.
People can only deny things so long as they can provide alternative explanations for them with a degree of rationality. This is in fact the official DV explanation for how most things go unnoticed, that excepting massive evidence, people will assume natural causes instead of making up something they know nothing about. That does not apply to the shootout with the FBI.
Im not saying that the whole super natural is outed. But at the very least it is now public knowledge that some kind of violent new species of animal exists. But it is utterly absurd to state that the general details of that incident did not get out. You cannot use the "denial" excuse ad infinitum. At some point it breaks.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Shift8 on July 20, 2017, 10:48:15 AM ---Sorry man but these are awful comparisons.
You are comparing suspicious activity or pure superstition to a major public incident. You are also comparing the low-leve operations of SI with few direct actors to an incident that was loud, deadly, and littered with physical evidence for others to see. These are not fair comparisons what so ever. Notice that I havent questioned the other events in the series, but specifically this one.
People can only deny things so long as they can provide alternative explanations for them with a degree of rationality. This is in fact the official DV explanation for how most things go unnoticed, that excepting massive evidence, people will assume natural causes instead of making up something they know nothing about. That does not apply to the shootout with the FBI.
Im not saying that the whole super natural is outed. But at the very least it is now public knowledge that some kind of violent new species of animal exists. But it is utterly absurd to state that the general details of that incident did not get out. You cannot use the "denial" excuse ad infinitum. At some point it breaks.
--- End quote ---
I think you are assuming that the only way to cover it up is to somehow make it so the incident never happened, and I agree that is absurd. But that's not really how they do it. They cover it up exactly the same way SI does: by filling in the boxes on the forms with more palatable explanation (And Rudolph proves you dont have to be consciously complicit to play that role). They had a bombing followed by a high-profile attack on the FBI HQ that was investigating it. One Person-of-Interest indicated that it was connected to a particularly powerful cartel/"Corporate Constellation" out of South America, and then a day or two later All of them Dies under mysterious circumstances all over the world. Nothing about this scream magic, and everything about it screams warring cartels and international terrorism. The only "evidence" possible might be the Rampire bodies, but the only person that might be able to definitively determine that they are not human would be some Medical Examiner, who would then immediately be "doing a three-month stint at a mental hospital for observation" just like Butters.
Keep in mind that the events dont need to be covered up, it's just that the details need to be rejected by the Official Story early enough. After that it lives on only in minds protected by tinfoil hats who are CONVINCED that the earth is flat and the moonlanding was fake and there are mind-control chemicals in the soap.
Shift8:
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 20, 2017, 12:14:41 PM ---I think you are assuming that the only way to cover it up is to somehow make it so the incident never happened, and I agree that is absurd. But that's not really how they do it. They cover it up exactly the same way SI does: by filling in the boxes on the forms with more palatable explanation (And Rudolph proves you dont have to be consciously complicit to play that role). They had a bombing followed by a high-profile attack on the FBI HQ that was investigating it. One Person-of-Interest indicated that it was connected to a particularly powerful cartel/"Corporate Constellation" out of South America, and then a day or two later All of them Dies under mysterious circumstances all over the world. Nothing about this scream magic, and everything about it screams warring cartels and international terrorism. The only "evidence" possible might be the Rampire bodies, but the only person that might be able to definitively determine that they are not human would be some Medical Examiner, who would then immediately be "doing a three-month stint at a mental hospital for observation" just like Butters.
Keep in mind that the events dont need to be covered up, it's just that the details need to be rejected by the Official Story early enough. After that it lives on only in minds protected by tinfoil hats who are CONVINCED that the earth is flat and the moonlanding was fake and there are mind-control chemicals in the soap.
--- End quote ---
There are too many witnesses for the level of deception you guys want to pull off here. The government cant wave a magic wand and turn off people brains. Too many people know for certain this wasnt a cartel. Not to mention its going to take all of about 5 seconds for someone to put together the problem that is: where is the evidence of the cartels arrival? Where are the bodies? Where are all the cartel weapons? I mean we can sit here an list these problems all day.
The problem you have here is that given how many data points there are that would be impossible to hide, no cover story about a cartel is going to last more than 90 seconds. You are never going to convince all, or even a majority, of the agents involved to keep their mouths shut. And the cover story is going to fall apart under media scrutiny.
And again, Im not saying that this means suddenly everyone believes in Vampires. Just that at the very least they know some new violent species of animal was on the loose.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Shift8 on July 20, 2017, 02:13:31 PM ---There are too many witnesses for the level of deception you guys want to pull off here. The government cant wave a magic wand and turn off people brains. Too many people know for certain this wasnt a cartel. Not to mention its going to take all of about 5 seconds for someone to put together the problem that is: where is the evidence of the cartels arrival? Where are the bodies? Where are all the cartel weapons? I mean we can sit here an list these problems all day.
--- End quote ---
Besides Tilly, name One. There were lots of "victims" but they were very specifically leaving no witnesses. And other than possibly the Ikk, the "witnesses didnt really see anything explainable. As to where are the weapons and bodies: right there on the floor holding the guns. DV Vamps dont ash out to nothing like on TV.
--- Quote ---The problem you have here is that given how many data points there are that would be impossible to hide, no cover story about a cartel is going to last more than 90 seconds. You are never going to convince all, or even a majority, of the agents involved to keep their mouths shut. And the cover story is going to fall apart under media scrutiny.
And again, Im not saying that this means suddenly everyone believes in Vampires. Just that at the very least they know some new violent species of animal was on the loose.
--- End quote ---
I...I cant really say NuhUh any more than I already have. Please give me something more concrete to work with than just you own assertions that something is magically going to show up on the front page just because.
I mean, at BEST you are going to get another Bigfoot conspiracy theory that haunts the internet. The general public simply WILL NOT accept an unknown predator that can attack and nearly wipe out the FBI in a major metropolitan area. Not without clear Video, and autopsy, and enough peer review to shut up the doubters. And once THAT happens, they'll start blaming geneticists for the "abominations of science" they set loose, or something.
huangjimmy108:
--- Quote from: Shift8 on July 20, 2017, 02:13:31 PM ---There are too many witnesses for the level of deception you guys want to pull off here. The government cant wave a magic wand and turn off people brains. Too many people know for certain this wasnt a cartel. Not to mention its going to take all of about 5 seconds for someone to put together the problem that is: where is the evidence of the cartels arrival? Where are the bodies? Where are all the cartel weapons? I mean we can sit here an list these problems all day.
The problem you have here is that given how many data points there are that would be impossible to hide, no cover story about a cartel is going to last more than 90 seconds. You are never going to convince all, or even a majority, of the agents involved to keep their mouths shut. And the cover story is going to fall apart under media scrutiny.
And again, Im not saying that this means suddenly everyone believes in Vampires. Just that at the very least they know some new violent species of animal was on the loose.
--- End quote ---
Here is the problem. There is no need to deceive, only need to blur the facts a little and the masses will conveniently choose to believe in a non supernatural explanation.
True, there are bodies left behind, but who gonna check and verify the truth? If you heard about a cartel attacking an FBI office in the newspaper, as a civilian, are you going to check it yourself? Or are you will accept the facts given to you by television and internet?
If the government put out a statement assuring that it is really a cartel, are you going to question the government and actually investigate yourself? And even if there are a few hundred witnesses swearing that it is a vampire attack, who do you think the masses gave more credibility. The official government statement or the scattered witnesses?
There are people who knows. They are people who thinks they know. There are people who suspects that supernatural exist, but in the end those people are only scattered sand. Even if those people scream until they die, the voice of a few hundred or a few thousand will be submerged under the skepticism of millions and billions. Those people will be isolated and rejected. if they talk too loudly, they might end up the same way as Jack Murphy.
Those clues and strangeness you mention are real, but it is not something presented in front of the masses without the option of denial. The ships are not burned yet. The pictures blurry. The videos not very clear. Eye witnesses does not see things clearly. So long as the masses are given the option of retreat and denial, there will always be ways to blurr the facts and allow time and distance to erase the rest.
Not that the secrecy can't be broken, but if the scale is at the level of what happened in changes, with only at best 100 direct eye witnesses, it is far from enough. Heck, an entire city disappeared and reappeared, but in time people just chalk it up as some freaky event and forget about it.
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