The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Mortal Government Knowledge of Magic
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Shift8 on July 18, 2017, 03:38:53 PM ---You guys are attributing the US government with plot power comparable to ministry of magic in Harry Potter. And the other half of you is giving human rationalization totally unrealistic capabilities. It doesn't work this way IRL.
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Not the ministry (or the Macusa?), just the Librarians of Congress who exist (and are terrifying) per WOJ, and are the most likely ones actively working the Cover-up angle, making Loup Garou tapes disappear, etc.
--- Quote from: jimbutcher on February 21, 2010, 08:21:16 AM ---If I was going to do anything in the modern era, it would have to be set after the Dresden Files climax, and I would probably focus on characters in the non-powerful-nation parts of the story: Guys like Vince, the Venatori, and the Special Collections Division of the Library of Congress. (Do NOT screw with the Librarians. Holy moly. Just don't.)
Jim
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--- Quote ---Note I'm not saying the cat is totally of the bag here. But people would absolutely, totally, completely certainly, without a doubt, indubitably, know that something strange happened. They may not know what kind of animals attacked them. They may not even think it was magic. But its crazy to say that the general facts of the incident would not be known. Not. Possible.
But I digress. I am sure Jim will explain everything all in due time, one way or another.
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Known? Absolutely. Rationalized away and never mentioned again so they can get on with their day? Also Absolutely.
Some people will deny it, but they still Know, deep down. A few will actively go looking for answers, and per Bigfoot on campus it's no longer difficult to find, thanks to the Paranet. The big things, like when a major city disappears for a few hours, will get covered up on the side by the government agency that we've been told of. The key word there is Individuals. Individuals like Marcone, who learn the truth and take steps to account for it. Or those like Wyatt Erp that join the Venators or some other clued-in society. Id call the Paranet the most modern and least secret one of these. And Im quite sure that the big vegas casino's know how to protect themselves against magic, since that will be one of the first three stops of every two-bit talent that thinks they have some magic knack to Get Rich Quick. But you'll never see them acknowledge it in their Investor Brochure.
But at the end of the day, Humans as a group just plain are NOT as logical as we'd like to believe. There are a lot of psychological drives that we are entirely ignorant of at any given moment, and in groups that gets compounded. One aspect of that is the history of magic as it was before the Age of Reason, and it wasnt a great realization. There is an awful lot to be said of convincing yourself you are at the top of the food chain, in terms of personal comfort. So even when individuals learn the truth, Shouting it from the Rooftops just gets you locked up; just ask Butters.
--- Quote from: WOJ ---http://www.jimbutcheronline.com/bb/index.php/topic,15416.msg728651.html#msg728651
6) PEOPLE BELIEVED IN MAGIC AND IT SCARED THEM. I mean, there was none of this "but there's no such thing as magic" nonsense involved. And not all the witch hunters were in it for the money. There was a class of men who knew all about the various forces of the supernatural, out there in the darkness, and who made themselves as able to contend with them as any mortal could be. If a wizard went all kaboomy on mortals, he knew that there was someone who was going to hunt him, striking in a moment of vulnerability.
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Snark Knight:
I wonder about the casino issue, actually. Cheating casinos to establish an early-career nest egg is bit of a plot point in the Alex Verus series, for one. Now, in the DV, certainly trying to cheat a house owned by Marcone would be a bad idea (I wonder if that has something to do with how he originally got clued in?), but are all big casinos aware?
Given the diversity of different talents at the lower end of the food chain or the range of skills that can be concentrated in a wizard-level or nearly such practitioner, blocking all possible all possible avenues of cheating could actually be very difficult. Trying to magic-proof a casino would mean countering everything from an ectomancer like Mort with a ghost partner reading the dealer's cards to him at blackjack, to a sensitive like Molly passively detecting opponent's confidence levels changing hand by hand at poker, to someone with short-range future awareness like that Paranet member who got shot in GS taking advantage at the roulette wheel. That's a pretty massive range of vulnerabilities to deal with.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Snark Knight on July 18, 2017, 08:14:33 PM ---I wonder about the casino issue, actually. Cheating casinos to establish an early-career nest egg is bit of a plot point in the Alex Verus series, for one. Now, in the DV, certainly trying to cheat a house owned by Marcone would be a bad idea (I wonder if that has something to do with how he originally got clued in?), but are all big casinos aware?
Given the diversity of different talents at the lower end of the food chain or the range of skills that can be concentrated in a wizard-level or nearly such practitioner, all possible avenues of cheating could actually be very difficult. Trying to wizard-proof a casino would mean countering everything from an ectomancer like Mort could have a ghost partner reading the dealer's cards to him at blackjack, to a sensitive like Molly could just passively detect opponent's confidence levels changing hand by hand, to someone with short-range future awareness like that Paranet member who got shot in GS taking it to the roulette wheel.
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I have this general impression (informed by Hollywood way too much, Im sure) that the security in Casino's is going to be second to none, as it is one of the few places where Funding matches the Motivation. And with organizations like Monoc Securities in play, who I assume apply some digression on how much they clue in their clients, I figure even if the actual heads of the organization are not clued in, somebody with clout in their security force is going to trip across the supernatural, or else be introduced to it, at some point. Not everywhere either, but the big Mecca's of Greed like Vegas and Monte Carlo, maaaaybe Atlantic City since New York is such a microcosm.
As far as the practicality of it, you dont have to be able to counter each distinct possible cheating method or put a blanket Ban on all magic (like some sort of antimagic field). But some things, like activating a circle around the roulette wheel before you drop the ball, are going to be both subtle and effective. Beyond that the same mentality for security applies to both magic and science: they just have to Detect. After that they've had decades to work out how to Motivate Cheaters to stop; sometimes they even get to keep a kneecap. At that point they need magic to get as close to the Sight as they can get without going nuts (or budget to burn out a wizard every year or something). Which likely means a non-human supernatural agent with energy-sense of some kind (A Spirit of Intellect would be perfect).
dspringer1:
Have to agree with Shift 8 that willful disbelief only gets you so far. Enough witnesses and people change their mind even about the impossible. Even assuming agencies/entities are pushing hard to discredit such witnesses is problematic given the scale of supernatural involvement with humans throughout history. Even in Harry's personal encounters, he has met hundreds of people who "know something" and many of them are in groups (like SI cops or minor practitioners) where they know their peers have had similar experiences and it is safe to talk about what they see without being mocked or committed. Multiply that by every city and you get way too many people for disbelief to be something that "should" be effective.
My personal guess is that something (spell/god/something) is actively encouraging disbelief to keep the mortals ignorant/complacent/unafraid. Otherwise it does not make sense given how freely supernatural creatures interact with mortals.
Snark Knight:
--- Quote from: Quantus on July 18, 2017, 08:33:12 PM ---But some things, like activating a circle around the roulette wheel before you drop the ball, are going to be both subtle and effective. Beyond that the same mentality for security applies to both magic and science: they just have to Detect.
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Something like Luccio's eyeglasses focus from the new short story (enhanced perception but at a much lower intensity than the sight) would help with detection. Circles would be tough to keep undisturbed anywhere with a lot of people walking about between tables though.
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