Author Topic: luccio's action  (Read 5671 times)

Offline Quantus

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Re: luccio's action
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2017, 12:10:36 PM »
As I said, his judgement was shot and worthless by that point.  But he didn't take the easy way, he did what he thought was right.  He was ready to sacrifice a guilty man (as he saw it) for the same reason he was later willing to die for the Council in Turn Coat, or lie to the Council to protect it from civil war.  (Here again, his judgement is at least questionable.)

He fully expected Harry to fall for the trap, because he that's that what the kind of person he thought Harry was would do.  Note than when it didn't work, he didn't murder Harry on the spot, or try to.  He was just caught off-balance and not sure how to react.

Don't confuse personal integrity with personal morality or good judgement.  They are different things. A villain can be heavy with integrity.  Marcone has integrity, but that doesn't make him a good guy.  Lara has a certain amount of personal integrity, but that doesn't make her less of a monster.

He didn't think Harryt was terrible, he thought Harry was an iminent threat to the lives and sanity of innocent people and the survival of the Council.  It was well beyond 'terrible guy'.

He didn't plant any evidence.  Nor did he try to frame Harry.  He tried to tempt Harry into stepping over the line, so arguably entrapment, yes.

Harry was, in his own way, doing the same thing Morgan did when he shot Corpsetaker-in-Luccio later.  Harry was lucky/wise enough that it turned out he was right to shoot the woman who he could not really know was actually Corpsetaker.  Even Harry was not 100% sure himself when he shot the woman in question.

The bold part is the key bit.  I fully agree with this statement, I just dont understand how you are can be applying it 180 degrees opposite of how I would.  Integrity is: "the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness."  Framing a man for a crime so that you can have him executed for unrelated things is not that, not at all.  Neither is threatening a man by getting him to defending himself in his own home so you can have him arrested.   Morgan was a tragic case, and ultimately had a good heart, sure.  But he was also a dirty cop who was willing to compromise his own ethics because he was old and beaten down and who, for perfectly understandable reasons, simply broke.  Gave in.  Stopped walking the straight and Narrow and started cutting corners and breaking the rules to uphold the rules.  He didnt really come back from it until his entire world shattered in the opening events of TC. 


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Offline LordDresden2

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Re: luccio's action
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2017, 04:41:13 AM »
The bold part is the key bit.  I fully agree with this statement, I just dont understand how you are can be applying it 180 degrees opposite of how I would.  Integrity is: "the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness."  Framing a man for a crime so that you can have him executed for unrelated things is not that, not at all.  Neither is threatening a man by getting him to defending himself in his own home so you can have him arrested.

But what about tricking a murderous monster into defending himself in his own home, so you can remove an imminent threat to the Council and public safety?  Because that's what Morgan thought he was doing.  It's also why he had no response ready when Harry didn't fall for it. 

Morgan was being completely true to what motivated him, then and later, the well-being of the White Council and the human race.  I suspect he sees both those things as tightly linked, and defending them as moral behavior.  He tried to entrap Harry for exactly the same reason he lied about the death of LaFortier (along with being in love with Stacy) and for the same reason he was ready to 'take the fall' to protect the Council in Turn Coat.  In that, he was completely consistant.

That's integrity.

The problem is that he had lost the ability to discern between real threats and imaginary ones.  He could no longer see the world as it actually was.  That's not lack of integrity, that's bad judgement and being close to the breaking point.

Remember, Morgan did not try to frame Harry.  Trick him, entrap him, yes, but I'm not sure the Council would have a problem with entrapment anyway.  I suspect their attitude might be closer to:  "If you can be entrapped, you should be entrapped, because you're a warlock." 

But either way, if Morgan had been willing to frame Harry, Harry would now be dead.  It wouldn't have been hard to plant evidence, set up phony sources, etc.  Morgan's been at this for decades, Harry, esp. back then, was a newbie and a reckless, careless newbie on top of it.  It would have been child's play to set Harry up using tactics that were genuinely over the line, and Morgan never did it.  Because he had integrity enough not to do it, and later, he had integrity enough to realize and admit that he had been tragically wrong.

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   Morgan was a tragic case, and ultimately had a good heart, sure.  But he was also a dirty cop who was willing to compromise his own ethics because he was old and beaten down and who, for perfectly understandable reasons, simply broke.  Gave in.  Stopped walking the straight and Narrow and started cutting corners and breaking the rules to uphold the rules.  He didnt really come back from it until his entire world shattered in the opening events of TC.

No, he began to regain his balance in Dead Beat.  That was when he realized that Harry was not evil, and that the situation was not as he had understood it to be.  It was the near-death of Anastasia in Dead Beat that snapped him out of the dead end he had gone down, and his realization that he had let his anger and bad judgement lead him astray in that incident.  He was still regaining his balance as of TC, and did not get time to finish it.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 04:48:17 AM by LordDresden2 »

Offline Mira

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Re: luccio's action
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2017, 01:50:02 PM »
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Remember, Morgan did not try to frame Harry.  Trick him, entrap him, yes, but I'm not sure the Council would have a problem with entrapment anyway.  I suspect their attitude might be closer to:  "If you can be entrapped, you should be entrapped, because you're a warlock." 

Why does one even attempt that in the first place?  As you say, the presumption of guilt, it isn't a cop's place to judge.  Morgan was willing to act the trivial as we saw when we first met him, he was about to take Harry's head on the grounds that supposedly he enslaved Toot.  It took some very fast talking on Harry's part to make it not happen.

The idea that Harry got off when he didn't deserve to became an obsession with Morgan, he then made it his life long duty to finally catch Harry in the act and then carry out what he thought was a miscarriage of justice.  It wasn't a lack of integrity on Morgan's part, nor really bad judgement..  In my opinion it was inflexibility, Morgan was so conditioned about warlocks that he couldn't believe that there are exceptions to the rule.  He really believed the Merlin's adage that once a kid goes warlock he/she cannot be reformed completely so is better off dead.  He played lip service to Harry not being a warlock as of Dead Beat, but it wasn't until he became a target himself that he fully understood what he had done to Harry all of his adult life.