The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
The Mothers' Cottage and Earth...
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on June 19, 2017, 06:07:34 PM ---Where'd I lose you?
--- End quote ---
Right after the fist sentence? It sounded like you were saying that you agree with the first WOJ but are rejecting the second, but Im not following your reasons?
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 19, 2017, 06:18:57 PM ---Right after the fist sentence? It sounded like you were saying that you agree with the first WOJ but are rejecting the second, but Im not following your reasons?
--- End quote ---
I'm conceding both, but the second is under protest. To have access to the southern seasons at all, they'd seem to require a link to that aspect that isn't explained by his statement. Their authority is, but their claim to the seasons isn't.
Which is where i believe the link between human belief in the seasons comes into play. But even then, they don't have the population to offer the same level of power supplied by the northern hemisphere.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on June 19, 2017, 11:07:36 PM ---I'm conceding both, but the second is under protest. To have access to the southern seasons at all, they'd seem to require a link to that aspect that isn't explained by his statement. Their authority is, but their claim to the seasons isn't.
--- End quote ---
OK, I think I see where I got lost. I was operating under the (unproven) assumption that the connection to the Seasons was something that came to the Fae Courts along with the Guardianship of the Gates (based on the Fact that the Dragons used to manage that aspect of Nature, and the theory that they are previous Guardians). Under that framework, it would have been a Single, Global connection that is shared by the two courts, and so there would not be a Second connection necessary (or possible) for the Southern half of the world. I interpret the 2nd WOJ to be indicating that they have to work harder politically because, at the end of the day, they are Outsiders Foreigners that have been put in charge (like an English Lord being installed in medieval Scotland) and the locals dont really like/appreciate it.
--- Quote ---Which is where i believe the link between human belief in the seasons comes into play. But even then, they don't have the population to offer the same level of power supplied by the northern hemisphere.
--- End quote ---
I dont like this. I think this line of logic leads down the path that in the Southern Hemisphere Nature Itself is weaker than the North because there are fewer Humans, and that doesnt feel right at all.
Griffyn612:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 20, 2017, 01:11:44 PM ---OK, I think I see where I got lost. I was operating under the (unproven) assumption that the connection to the Seasons was something that came to the Fae Courts along with the Guardianship of the Gates (based on the Fact that the Dragons used to manage that aspect of Nature, and the theory that they are previous Guardians). Under that framework, it would have been a Single, Global connection that is shared by the two courts, and so there would not be a Second connection necessary (or possible) for the Southern half of the world. I interpret the 2nd WOJ to be indicating that they have to work harder politically because, at the end of the day, they are Outsiders Foreigners that have been put in charge (like an English Lord being installed in medieval Scotland) and the locals dont really like/appreciate it.
--- End quote ---
See, my (unproven) theory is that their association with the seasons is artificially constructed by spells laid into the Table, channeling human belief in the seasons as "faith" power that is then provided equally to the Courts.
I'm not sure that I buy that the Dragons were involved with the Gates, or that they were tied to the seasons. Were there some WoJ's that suggested as much?
--- Quote ---I dont like this. I think this line of logic leads down the path that in the Southern Hemisphere Nature Itself is weaker than the North because there are fewer Humans, and that doesnt feel right at all.
--- End quote ---
That's where the difference in our theories becomes significant. You're theory is based on the idea that there's an unchanging and equal pool of Seasonal Aspect Power accessible to the Courts from either hemisphere.
What I'm suggesting is that each human unconsciously gives 1 joul of their free will (out of, let's say, 1 kilojoule available to each) to the Aspect of Seasons.
Instead of ancient humans saying, "Odin controls the sky! If thunder rolls and lighting strikes, Odin must be angry!", and giving a portion of their free will to deities that control their environment, modern humans say, "We can't vacation during that time of year, it's too hot/cold," and give a sliver of their free will to the Courts.
Since there are 7.5 billion humans, and 6.6 billion live in the Northern hemisphere, the North is providing 6.6 megajoules of free will. By comparison, the Southern hemisphere has 900 million humans, so they only provide 0.9 megajoules.
That disparate level of "worship" establishes the Northern hemisphere as the "dominant" hemisphere when establishing the active season between the Courts. But it also allows for each Court to still have their season active somewhere, which allows them to summon the Table and pour power into their side.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Griffyn612 on June 20, 2017, 07:46:23 PM ---See, my (unproven) theory is that their association with the seasons is artificially constructed by spells laid into the Table, channeling human belief in the seasons as "faith" power that is then provided equally to the Courts.
I'm not sure that I buy that the Dragons were involved with the Gates, or that they were tied to the seasons. Were there some WoJ's that suggested as much?
--- Quote ---On the latter there is, though Ive lost the link and have spent a couple months failing to find it again. The Question was a straightforward "what sort of things were the Dragons in charge of" (since we were previously told they were cosmic beings in charge of parts of the natural order). He rattled off a few examples offhand, and I recall being suprised that ones of them was "the orderly turning of the seasons" (I /think/ I have the phrasing correct?).
Since the seasons seem obviously a Fae responsibility, I took that as further evidence (though certainly not proof) for the theory that the Dragons were a former Guardian.
--- End quote ---
That's where the difference in our theories becomes significant. You're theory is based on the idea that there's an unchanging and equal pool of Seasonal Aspect Power accessible to the Courts from either hemisphere.
What I'm suggesting is that each human unconsciously gives 1 joul of their free will (out of, let's say, 1 kilojoule available to each) to the Aspect of Seasons.
Instead of ancient humans saying, "Odin controls the sky! If thunder rolls and lighting strikes, Odin must be angry!", and giving a portion of their free will to deities that control their environment, modern humans say, "We can't vacation during that time of year, it's too hot/cold," and give a sliver of their free will to the Courts.
Since there are 7.5 billion humans, and 6.6 billion live in the Northern hemisphere, the North is providing 6.6 megajoules of free will. By comparison, the Southern hemisphere has 900 million humans, so they only provide 0.9 megajoules.
That disparate level of "worship" establishes the Northern hemisphere as the "dominant" hemisphere when establishing the active season between the Courts. But it also allows for each Court to still have their season active somewhere, which allows them to summon the Table and pour power into their side.
--- End quote ---
Agreed, that's were we diverge. Im still not on board with the whole notion that all the deities are fueled so directly by their Believer-counts, or that Nature itself would be less powerful in the Southern Hemisphere simply because there are fewer Humans to be confused by it.
To the particulars:
I certainly dont think that the Power of the courts are "unchanging", but I do think that at the Global level Summer and Winter need to constantly balance each other (within the variance that their politics emit) because that's the only way a giant spinning /anything/ can be balanced; physics is skewing my understanding of this though wich could be a mistake.
I will agree that I think each side has a Pool of Power (which Im guessing is called the Wellspring but I could be wrong) that is independent of geography, or else it would mean that the Gate Forces are significantly under-powered for half the year. Which is crazy-talk :p
I generally agree with your characterization of how worship changed with the popular/scientific understanding of Nature, but the thing I really dont get behind is the assumed Schism of the hemispheres or the idea that the Northern Hemisphere is fundamentally more Important in a metaphysical sense than the Southern simply because it has more humans.
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