The Dresden Files > DFRPG
odd question
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Anubissama on June 09, 2017, 11:05:23 AM ---I think Dresden is a bit of a special Knight, in the fact that he bargained for his position of Knight.
I think there is even a WoJ that speaks to it. When asked if Harry like Molly has a Winter Knight Account with 7 zeros lying around, Jim says no. Because Harry gets paid in power, he gets the power of the Winter Knight Mantle and for that, he is a consultant to Mab, where his word iirc.
I'm not saying that this makes it a sure thing, but I get the feeling that Dresden is in a unique position in regards to other Winter Knights that he might have a bigger ownership over the Mantle since it is his payment so to speak.
--- End quote ---
I tended to look at it the other way (though this might jsut be the other side of the same coin). A normal Knight like Slade or probably Fix is relying on the Mantle for the majority of their power, and consequently their obligation for obedience seems a little more absolute. Harry still gets the same Mantle-based power package, but he gets none of the ancillary support he might have gotten if he'd been willing to more completely enter Mab's service. He made it clear that she could give him Tasks and Goal but could not then have any input in /how/ he executes those orders; by doing so he lost all those extra's, since be having no say in how he executes the task, she has no obligation to provide additional/situational support for the task as the Means, the How, are 100% Harry's responsibility. If she were dictating more specifically how he was expected to accomplish her orders, she'd then be on the hook for providing certain resources to make it happen, and potentially more basic things like Room&Board.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 09, 2017, 01:40:01 PM --- I tended to look at it the other way (though this might jsut be the other side of the same coin). A normal Knight like Slade or probably Fix is relying on the Mantle for the majority of their power, and consequently their obligation for obedience seems a little more absolute. Harry still gets the same Mantle-based power package, but he gets none of the ancillary support he might have gotten if he'd been willing to more completely enter Mab's service. He made it clear that she could give him Tasks and Goal but could not then have any input in /how/ he executes those orders; by doing so he lost all those extra's, since be having no say in how he executes the task, she has no obligation to provide additional/situational support for the task as the Means, the How, are 100% Harry's responsibility. If she were dictating more specifically how he was expected to accomplish her orders, she'd then be on the hook for providing certain resources to make it happen, and potentially more basic things like Room&Board.
--- End quote ---
I think Mab has pretty much exactly what she wants from her Knight. When Harry attempted to suicide-out from under Winter's Knighthood -- and almost succeeded! -- Mab was thrilled by his display of competence and deceit, coming >this< close to out-maneuvering her; her first real assignment for Harry was to go into a major Op being run by fallen Angels (chief servants of, y'know, the bloody Prince of Lies!) and trick & outmaneuver them all.
Remember that the primary role of the Knight is NOT as muscle or power (the Queens and the Ladies and their courts have TONS of that already); it is to bring Mortal agency to Winter, to do things that Faeries themselves cannot do by their Fae-bound natures.
As such, Harry's ardent independence serves Mab far better than his slavish obedience ever could.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: g33k on June 09, 2017, 03:02:39 PM ---I think Mab has pretty much exactly what she wants from her Knight. When Harry attempted to suicide-out from under Winter's Knighthood -- and almost succeeded! -- Mab was thrilled by his display of competence and deceit, coming >this< close to out-maneuvering her; her first real assignment for Harry was to go into a major Op being run by fallen Angels (chief servants of, y'know, the bloody Prince of Lies!) and trick & outmaneuver them all.
Remember that the primary role of the Knight is NOT as muscle or power (the Queens and the Ladies and their courts have TONS of that already); it is to bring Mortal agency to Winter, to do things that Faeries themselves cannot do by their Fae-bound natures.
As such, Harry's ardent independence serves Mab far better than his slavish obedience ever could.
--- End quote ---
I think he was hoping for this level of Competence without the confrontational habits; She very much wanted him to be "Her Monster" which Uriel ultimately prevented. She certainly does not want the useless micro-managed lump that Harry threatened to become, but she'd certainly take more enthusiastic obedience, maybe a bit of real loyalty, things like that.
g33k:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 09, 2017, 03:24:20 PM --- I think he was hoping for this level of Competence without the confrontational habits
--- End quote ---
She's Mab. She wouldn't trust anything of the sort; not if it came from Harry Dresden !
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 09, 2017, 03:24:20 PM --- She very much wanted him to be "Her Monster" which Uriel ultimately prevented. She certainly does not want the useless micro-managed lump that Harry threatened to become, but she'd certainly take more enthusiastic obedience, maybe a bit of real loyalty, things like that.
--- End quote ---
Dunno... I think Mab wants Harry to *THINK* she wants to break him to her yoke: there's very little likely to elicit such automatic resistance from HCBD. And Mab is no fool when it comes to tricking and manipulating mortals. Harry's 1st-person narrative is experiential: of COURSE we see it from Harry's POV; that includes being subject to Mab's Butcher's manipulation.
But I suspect we'll just have to agree to disagree. :D
Quantus:
--- Quote from: g33k on June 09, 2017, 07:00:10 PM ---She's Mab. She wouldn't trust anything of the sort; not if it came from Harry Dresden !
Dunno... I think Mab wants Harry to *THINK* she wants to break him to her yoke: there's very little likely to elicit such automatic resistance from HCBD. And Mab is no fool when it comes to tricking and manipulating mortals. Harry's 1st-person narrative is experiential: of COURSE we see it from Harry's POV; that includes being subject to Mab's Butcher's manipulation.
But I suspect we'll just have to agree to disagree. :D
--- End quote ---
I dont think she has that sort of semantic wriggle room anymore. We know per WOJ that in the cave when harry woke up, she was /incorrect/ about Harry's Free Will, rather than "lying" about it. I dont think she could have been sincerely incorrect in those statements while still maintaining the level of layered deception you describe.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[*] Previous page
Go to full version