The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
What is a Saint? (Series Spoilers)
Mira:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 12, 2017, 02:37:16 PM ---Ya, Im firmly of the opinion that Uriel and Mab never had any direct communication. He acted, she was simply forced to REact. But she had no say and no opportunity or offer to Agree or Disagree.
--- End quote ---
Agreed, she didn't like it, but she had no choice but to go along, Uriel was in charge here.
--- Quote ---"Oh the Quiet One angered us, sending your essence out unprotected. Had he been incorrect, I would have
been robbed of my knight, and the old monster of his custodian."
--- End quote ---
Further underscored in my opinion when Uriel whispered the seven words to Harry, assuring him that he still had choices as far as Mab's orders were concerned.
Rasins:
Wasn't there a conversation between Harry and Nick where Harry says something like "You're not Saint". And Nick responds with, "well not yet anyway."
I'm only mentioning this because there may be something there too.
On a definition note, and I know many believe that upper and lower case use is a pain, but ....
A saint is anyone who believes.
A Saint is anyone the Church has recognized as having 'For Sure' gone to heaven and is WITH God.
Not really helpful in our conversation, but, ALL believers are saints.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Rasins on June 15, 2017, 06:54:45 PM ---Wasn't there a conversation between Harry and Nick where Harry says something like "You're not Saint". And Nick responds with, "well not yet anyway."
I'm only mentioning this because there may be something there too.
On a definition note, and I know many believe that upper and lower case use is a pain, but ....
A saint is anyone who believes.
A Saint is anyone the Church has recognized as having 'For Sure' gone to heaven and is WITH God.
Not really helpful in our conversation, but, ALL believers are saints.
--- End quote ---
Yaaa, I just cant get behind that. Saint needs to be a more exclusive club; being /pope/ doesnt even guarantee you become a Saint.
As to Nic's comment, my working theory has always been that he anticipates a change of Management in Heaven, at which point it would be His side that is declaring/defining Sainthood
Rasins:
--- Quote from: Quantus on June 15, 2017, 06:59:54 PM ---Yaaa, I just cant get behind that. Saint needs to be a more exclusive club; being /pope/ doesnt even guarantee you become a Saint.
As to Nic's comment, my working theory has always been that he anticipates a change of Management in Heaven, at which point it would be His side that is declaring/defining Sainthood
--- End quote ---
I agree, and that's why there is the distinction between upper and lower case S for saints. Per St. Paul, all believers are saints.
Only those who are recognized as having actually attained heaven are called Saints.
Mira:
--- Quote from: Rasins on June 15, 2017, 08:12:50 PM ---I agree, and that's why there is the distinction between upper and lower case S for saints. Per St. Paul, all believers are saints.
Only those who are recognized as having actually attained heaven are called Saints.
--- End quote ---
That is all true, being a pope doesn't guareentee sainthood, though two in our life time have been declared so though they were very good men and engineered some big changes, neither went around making miracles.. The question is how does the Church know for sure this person or that one attained Heaven? It used to be a harder process up until 1983 with several levels of blessedness, there were a number of hearings with those advocating for sainthood and those arguing just as vigorously against any "proof" presented, it could take years even centuries, St. Joan of Arc for example was not declared a saint until the 1920s. Since 1983 the process has been streamlined, with some towns paying big bucks for specialized lawyers to advocate for a blessed son or daughter for sainthood... Some things haven't changed from the time that chicken bones were sold or passed off as a finger bone of some venerated saint, someone is always out to make a buck.. ::)
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