The Dresden Files > DF Spoilers
Nemesis is different
Rasins:
I'm still of the opinion that since there exists a gate, that means that the outsiders can come in. Obviously we are trying to keep them out, but still it's possible.
ClintACK:
--- Quote from: groinkick on June 01, 2017, 05:52:37 PM ---One reason I think Nemesis is connected to Wizards is because it reminds me a lot of like what Molly did to her boyfriend when she mind controlled him. Not only did she control him but the end result of such control is insanity of the person being controlled. The way it "spreads" is like a wizard creating a conduit between himself and the one they want to control. That first link was the Athame, provided by Cowl and the Black Council. Nemesis didn't just start controlling people, it needs a connection of some kind. Again this sounds a lot like a wizard to me or group of them.
The more I think about it the more I think that the Black Council is a group of spell casters that create a link between themselves and their target, and working together overpower the mind, and bend to their will... Nemesis, the Adversary are actually a cult of dark wizards who's goal is to become the rulers of reality. Perhaps Merlin created the White Council because of the Black Council. That could mean the Black Council has existed before the White Council...
--- End quote ---
I like this idea. It consolidates two of our mysterious behind-the-scenes enemies (BC and Nem) into one.
Lots of interesting questions come out of this:
* Cowl's "end death" sales pitch... was that just tailored for Kumori, or is there more to it? (See: Dr. Strange's villains who want to end death by making a bargain with Dormamu...)
* What would an Outsider victory really look like? (And what do the conspirators think it would look like? What do the members of the Circle/Black Council/"Nemesis" want?)
* Why is it so dangerous to speak the word? Is it like the Merlin's fear of acknowledging the Black Council's existence? (That many wizards and sorcerers would join the "rebellion" if they knew of it, without knowing the full story?)
* Why haven't they tried directly to recruit Harry? (Or *DID* they -- was Kumori's approach a first attempt at this? Is that why Cowl left Harry alive in DB?)
* Which side is Nicodemus on? Does he support the conspiracy or oppose it??
agrabes:
--- Quote from: Rasins on June 02, 2017, 02:47:56 PM ---I'm still of the opinion that since there exists a gate, that means that the outsiders can come in. Obviously we are trying to keep them out, but still it's possible.
--- End quote ---
I would say it's not that it's impossible for them to come in. I agree, having a gate suggests that it is possible. But rather than what is possible, I'm talking about what has actually happened and makes sense to have happened in the context of what we know so far. It's implied in the books that the Outsiders have been trying to come in for essentially all of eternity and so far they have never been successful. Yes, they can cross over for a limited amount of time if specifically summoned and through whatever method Nemesis uses to infect people, but they can't just slip in and out on their own volition.
Regarding the Oblivion War, I don't think that once some kind of being has been sent to "Oblivion" they go to the Outside. I think they cease to exist entirely, beyond all ability to come back. That seems to be the entire premise of the Oblivion War: make sure that evil beings which are already gone and mostly forgotten become entirely forgotten so that they cease to exist.
kazimmoinuddin:
I keep on being reminded of the pah wraiths from DS9, they needed a special book to escape from their prison. But instead the prophets managed to destroy it, and imprison their avatar/representative in the fire caves for ever. So I think while nemesis represents a way in for the outsiders, it is also potentially a way to permantly bar them from entry.
dspringer1:
Personal opinion that the outsiders are alien to this reality -- and see to destroy it. (kudo agrabes who said it first).
Agree with Quantus that the Outsiders can be summoned into this reality by wizards.
The fact that the outsiders are fighting at the outer gates implies strongly that they have the ability to enter our reality on their own, but are blocked by the Winter court fey/outer gates.
Nemesis is a outsider "power". I think the "He who walks..." types are generals or at least commanders of some type. Nemesis is probably something more like an infiltrator or corruptor as opposed to a general. In Denarian terms, one more like Andurial or Lasiel as opposed to Magog. I suspect Nemesis is considerably more powerful than the "he who walk" types - and perhaps one of the great powers in the Outsider leadership. Nemfection might be a new avenue of attack, but I suspect the theme of corruption and infiltration is the domain of Nemesis for a very long time.
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