The Dresden Files > DFRPG
My first character for review
g33k:
--- Quote from: Wanderer on June 01, 2017, 12:25:53 PM --- As far as I can tell, Soulgaze is an optional buy for sorcerers/wizards (YS, p. 174: "If you have the Sight, above, you may take Soulgaze for free if you so choose. It's not mandatory") ...
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OK, my mistake; I thought both were "all wizards" non-optionally (I think the RPG may depart from DF-stories / WoJ canon on these ... ? ) .
--- Quote from: Wanderer on June 01, 2017, 12:25:53 PM --- Well, from a Doylist viewpoint, the narrative tension between the character's independent attitude and his ties to the Faerie Courts and Heaven/Hell is supposed to be part of his long-term arc and the source of various potential plot hooks, as well as the dichotomy between his drive for ever more magical power and his aspirations to freedom.
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Fair enough!
Though I note that's a *LOT* of different powers in-play; IIRC not even Dresden himself had simultaneous access to Hellfire and Soulfire! I'd be Doylistically worried that all these heavy-duty obligations might result in MOST of his time being spent on the agendas & conflicts of those other Powers, and less on his own agendas & motivations.
--- Quote from: Wanderer on June 01, 2017, 12:25:53 PM --- ... He expects to be able and pay access to these external power sources by doing the occasional favor or service to Faerie and Heaven/Hell. He plans to be their freelance agent every so often but never their permanent slave, which would be OK for his self-image and sense of honor. Those Powers help him, so it is good to do them a few favors once in a while, it is complete and lasting servitude he would object to. As it concerns potential conflicts between these various Powers' agendas and his own, or other obligations he may have, they shall be dealt with the best he can if and when they occur.
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Faeries like those bargains, favor-for-service. Occasionally, it even works out well for the mortal involved... although the further up the Fae food-chain you go, the less likely it becomes that a bargain will seem like "a good idea" (or even "not a horrible idea") by the time you're done!
Pixies? A bargain a day keeps trouble at bay!
Faerie nobles? Oh CRAP, what did I do??!?
Heaven and Hell... mmmm... those get a bit less clear-cut.
The only "bargain" that Hell is interested in is the one that gets them your soul (or some sort of access to it, e.g. part of your True Name; or you doing (or permitting) something likely to tempt/corrupt you or another person), and as Burke noted The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, so taking a "deal" to just do "nothing" can be effectively a complicit action.
Heaven... apparently doesn't MAKE that kind of bargain, or demand those kinds of services. They got that ineffable thing goin' on.
They apparently nudge the "right person for the job" in the direction of "a job that needs doing," and just MAYBE if they see you're doing a Good job (note the cap-G) you end up with Soulfire or some other sort of "reward". But -- being ineffable and all -- their Reward is one likely to be useful in other Heavenly endeavors and/or to end up doing Heaven's Work in other ways. They're ruddy bastards that way!
Sanctaphrax:
The Sight and Soulgaze are mandatory for Wizards. They're part of the template. Ignoring that should be pretty harmless, though. And non-wizard casters can have one, both, or neither.
As for Soulfire, I'm not sure the angels have any authority over its use. They can choose not to give it to you, but once it's given I don't think they can take it back.
Wanderer:
--- Quote from: g33k on June 01, 2017, 08:36:06 PM ---Though I note that's a *LOT* of different powers in-play; IIRC not even Dresden himself had simultaneous access to Hellfire and Soulfire! I'd be Doylistically worried that all these heavy-duty obligations might result in MOST of his time being spent on the agendas & conflicts of those other Powers, and less on his own agendas & motivations.
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Well, I may point out that even at the highest power-level builds the character is assumed to have at most two different, mostly thematically compatible, types of Sponsored Magic: either (Unseelie Magic AND Hellfire) OR (Seelie Magic AND Soulfire) according to alternative versions, never Hellfire and Soulfire simultaneously. I think this is potentially manageable in terms of ties and obligations, also b/c the two power source sets tend to favor decay/destruction or growth/creation, respectively.
Even in the theoretical case the character is developed beyond the 20/21 Refresh threshold, in all likelihood I'd invest the additional Refresh mostly to round up the power set with more concept- and Sidhe-appropriate inborn Supernatural Powers, which the current build downplays a little. Say, a 30/31 Refresh version of the character would likely be:
Claws (-1)
Evocation (-3)
Human Guise (+0)
Inhuman Recovery (-2)
Inhuman Speed (-2)
Inhuman Strength (-2)
Inhuman Toughness (-2)
The Catch (cold iron, trappings of Winter/Summer, and unholy/holy stuff) (+3)
Refinement (Evocation - element x2, Evocation – specialty x3) (-5)
Sponsored Magic (Soulfire) (-3) OR Sponsored Magic (Hellfire) (-2)
Seelie Magic (-2) OR Unseelie Magic (-2)
Thaumaturgy (-3)
The Sight (-1)
Swift Transition (-2)
True Shapeshifting (-4)
Wings (-1)
--- Quote ---Faeries like those bargains, favor-for-service. Occasionally, it even works out well for the mortal involved... although the further up the Fae food-chain you go, the less likely it becomes that a bargain will seem like "a good idea" (or even "not a horrible idea") by the time you're done!
Pixies? A bargain a day keeps trouble at bay!
Faerie nobles? Oh CRAP, what did I do??!?
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No contention here, although I may point out the character is supposed to gain access to Seelie/Unseelie Magic because of his half-Sidhe heritage, with little bargaining with the Faerie Courts being necessary to get the power in the first place. Once the character goes into debt compel to tap additional power a few times, then it is another matter entirely.
--- Quote ---The only "bargain" that Hell is interested in is the one that gets them your soul (or some sort of access to it, e.g. part of your True Name; or you doing (or permitting) something likely to tempt/corrupt you or another person), and as Burke noted The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing, so taking a "deal" to just do "nothing" can be effectively a complicit action.
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A couple things to point out: first, the character is supposed to gain access to Hellfire because he got a Denarian shadow, much like it happened to Harry. As far as I can tell this avenue involves little direct bargaining and favor-trading with the Fallen to gain the power in the first place. Much like with the Faerie Courts, however, once the character goes into debt compel a few times, it is another matter entirely. Second, in fiction and RPG the cases concern a minority when a deal with the forces of Hell directly and immediately involves the end-game of a soul-trade in exchange for any significant power, favor, or service coming from Below. There is a rich lore about the cases when a whole lot of different bargains, favors, and services are traded instead for a good while.
I may also remark this character is the kind of person that is not much concerned at all about the final disposition of his soul in the Hereafter, if any (he's not a religious person, he lives in the present, and he may expect to live a very long time barring a violent death because of his faerie and wizard heritage), although he does care about his self-image and honor. Certainly corruption may be the end-goal of the Fallen, and dealing with them entails the risk of advancing the cause of evil one way or another, but to do so by minimizing such issues is where the challenge is all about.
--- Quote ---Heaven... apparently doesn't MAKE that kind of bargain, or demand those kinds of services. They got that ineffable thing goin' on.
They apparently nudge the "right person for the job" in the direction of "a job that needs doing," and just MAYBE if they see you're doing a Good job (note the cap-G) you end up with Soulfire or some other sort of "reward". But -- being ineffable and all -- their Reward is one likely to be useful in other Heavenly endeavors and/or to end up doing Heaven's Work in other ways. They're ruddy bastards that way!
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That's more or less how I expect dealing with the Sponsor would go in Heaven's case. I may also point out that according to PP Soulfire has a different way (soul stress) of paying for overextending one's credit at the Sponsor bank than the usual debt compel.
Wanderer:
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on June 01, 2017, 10:24:54 PM ---As for Soulfire, I'm not sure the angels have any authority over its use. They can choose not to give it to you, but once it's given I don't think they can take it back.
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As far as I can tell, any Sponsor is not free to revoke access to their power arbitrarily or at will. They have leeway to impose sanctions and restrictions if the character does go into debt, or directly tries to damage them or their agenda. But otherwise the gift of power, once given, cannot be revoked. The character paid for it with whatever Refresh represents, after all.
Quantus:
Forgive me it's been a long time since i looked at that part of the rules, How does Soulfire Work mechanically? By the novels I'd expect it to be different than standard Sponsored magic, since you have to provide it fuel (as opposed to Hellfire). Similarly I'd expect Heaven, more than most Sponsors, to be able to be bound by the consequences of their own Choice to grant the Power. On the Other hand, they are pretty quick to revoke Sword of the Cross power, so can a Soulfire Wielder "Fall" like an angel can if they abuse their granted power?
Ive always wondered: Does the gift of Soul-fire make you a Saint?
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