The Dresden Files > DFRPG
Playing Lawbreaking characters
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: blackstaff67 on May 07, 2017, 01:50:12 PM ---Otherwise, you might as well be playing a generic urban fantasy RPG.
--- End quote ---
There's nothing wrong with that, though.
blackstaff67:
You are absolutely right. My apologies :-[ if I have angered or offended anyone, my post in hindsight was rather argumentative.
Taran:
Some ramblings mixed with advice...
Advice-like comments:
There's nothing wrong with just saying that the White Council is an organization that wants to keep Wizards under their thumb. In which case, you probably don't even need Lawbreaking Powers. Or, if you really don't like the racist aspect of the Laws, give Lawbreaker some real teeth and make it come into play against 'non human' victims.
Maybe make Lawbreaker give you a penalty that allows Wardens to more easily track your deeds. +1 to rituals to track you, or more easily divine you through wards. Gives them a +1 to discern your personality when they use a Soul Gaze. Lawbreaker changes an Character Aspect after all, so maybe it makes those decisions come to the forefront, especially given the metaphysical connection between magic and personality. Besides, If you do lots of Necromancy and Wardens are divining for necromancy, their efforts are going to point your way.
I agree with Sanctaphrax that mental evocations are a game-breaker. If you allow them without any fallout, expect most physical conflicts to be easy. Until they run into a Powerful Psychomancer and then they're probably toast.
Lawbreaker, Refresh, Free Will and compels
I think you should be careful about disconnecting refresh from free will. Refresh isn't just the mechanic that balances the game. Your positive (or negative) refresh affects the choices you can make in the game. If 'monsters' have free will, then they should always have positive refresh because, mechanically, that's how they turn down compels against their 'base nature' or High Concept. Queen Mab, as powerful as she is, is a slave to her mantle. (maybe the same way a Head of a country has limited choice Because of the rules around the power they wield - kind of ironic)
I guess that was the whole point of the Lawbreaker power. And powers like Demonic Co-pilot (a silly power, mechanically speaking) and Feeding Dependency. They represent demons/outside forces trying to take away your free will.
Red Court Vampires are sentient but are driven by their blood lust - the demon has destroyed the human that was once there. Feeding constantly is justifiable to them and nothing wrong with that unless you are human and don't want to be eaten. Try to convince them to resist their Hunger will be difficult. White Court are driven by their Demons as well and some, like Thomas, can resist them.
But the same can be said about humans and greed(or eating). But it comes down to the methods they(anyone with free will) choose employ to satiate those hungers. Honestly, a 20 refresh character with only 1 positive refresh has the same amount of Choice as a 7 refresh character with 1 positive refresh. Lawbreaker is a silly mechanic that is designed to 'push' people over the edge because the setting implies that certain uses of magic limit your free will. The game should have lots of compels and the more FPs you have the more choice you have to resist those compels. If your PCs are complicated characters, sometimes they might be compelled to do horrible things or sometimes heroic things (or both at once). If they are one-dimensional characters with aspects that give them lots of opportunities to hurt, main and kill, then that's what they will do. (justified or not)
So, yeah, it's not so much about 'I cast this evil spell and now I'm an evil Monster', it's more about 'I use spells in this way for every situation and now I don't know when to quit'. Depending on what you do with those spells, you may or may not be an Evil Monster but, either way, you have succumbed to the power you once controlled and it controls you. But that can happen without Lawbreaker. That can happen by taking Evocation instead of Ritual. And many creatures have passed that threshold...
sorry, that was long...
Quantus:
So, Assuming for a moment that we wanted to remove the Lawbreaker mechanics: In the interest of maintaining reasonable game Balance what other individual penalties might you impose? It's been mentioned that Neuromancy in particular might be a game-breaker, are there perhaps other mechanic limitations that would restrain it's use without a 'morality' component? How about for the Chronomancy or Baleful Polymorph Laws (for lack of a better phrase)?
Perhaps making both levels of neuromancy more difficult to invoke (touch-range only maybe), or more taxing (stress track fallout), or easier to self-counter if you are targeted?
Unwilling Transmogrtification would probably require crazy power-levels, a hardcore shape-shifiting specialty, and/or a direct thaumaturgical link to bypass natural defenses.
By the novels chronomancy is crazy hard for mortal power levels to pull off, though there is one council example. Probably have to be case-by-case, but Sci-Fi as a whole has tons of story fodder for how Time Travel can go terribly wrong.
Murder by magic is probably fine as it stands, at least as compared to non-magic murder.
Necromancy is a fundamentally different energy so I'd probably go with Fallout from extended use that way; maybe it works opposite of Life Magic in that you get a reduced Lifespan and slowed Healing from extended use?
Outergates are all Plot, so handle case-by-case.
khadgar4606:
--- Quote from: blackstaff67 on May 07, 2017, 01:50:12 PM ---He's not about arguing about PCs with a 'dark side.' He's arguing about Lawbreaking and the Laws of Magic. A PC can have a dark side, but one of the Laws about the Dresden=verse is that the Cosmos itself will slap your soul down if you use magic without regard for the consequences of your actions. Magic springs from your soul, using it to break a law is like using the Force for evil--it can lead you to the Dark Side. Actions do have consequences--even unintended ones.
Now, me personally as a GM, will cheerfully tell players that I'm not out to play "Gotcha!" with the rules. I'll tell a player in advance, "If you do 'A', 'B' will follow." Emphasizing free will and choice by having the player make the decision is paramount to me.
Otherwise, you might as well be playing a generic urban fantasy RPG.
--- End quote ---
I mean harry was inchs away from going shady side of the magic whichif i was writing means still effing red court just eff it via mavra solution cuz its kinda what angst harry would do.
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