Other Jimness > Cinder Spires Spoilers
Some plot elements just bug me....
dspringer1:
I am a big Butcher fan and enjoyed the book in general, but frankly there were several events in the book that simply did not make a lot of sense to me.
1) The book made a big deal in the beginning to explain why the naval warships could not really damage the naval port in their surprise attack because it would take too much time and the naval defensive batteries would blow them apart. However, later in the book a single armed merchantman totally destroyed the Landing port both quickly and easily. Presumably this port also had defenses given its obviously vital importance? Presumably the merchants weapons were not more powerful than that of the full warships that attacked the naval port?
2) The whole naval fleet is concentrated in a defensive formation around the Spire. So how did an attack on Landing happen without any of these naval vessels noticing and intercepting the merchant ship. The whole point of such a formation would be to protect the Spire and keep the fleet concentrated to respond to any attack on the Spire. Landing was one of the most important hubbles in the Spire and one of the most exposed to attack. The Spirach made precautions against an attack on Landing, but no naval precautions were made? At least some ships should have been nearby and in a position to intercept the merchant ship/transport, especially as there was no Aurora attack in place to distract them. And if all these ships would be completely unable to see what was happening when on full alert/at war/defensive focused formation/not distracted, then that is an argument that the spire is effectively unable to spot an attack/effectively defend itself. Yes I know the merchant ship is fast, but it takes time to pick up speed and the naval ships would already be in motion/nearby.
3) Grim identified the merchant ship as most likely the escape ship for the invading marines. So why did he not take any action to prevent the enemy marines from making their escape? More guards on the landing? Some naval vessels on guard? A few crewman on a weapon and ready to fire. Grim did not even send a warning to the landing when he knew the enemy marines were starting their major attack.
4) There was also this big discussion on the ship about electricity and why the Spire did not make such available to its people. The counter-argument was that power crystals are in short supply. But presumably a very huge power source is already in place to keep afloat the Spires themselves. Multiple comments about etheric flow of energy passing through the conduits designed by the builders. Why not use that energy to power electric devices. I doubt all the people the spire can use enough energy to make up more than a tiny fraction of what is required to hold all that massive stone complex in the air. And given the series implies the builders were space explorers (from earth), they would naturally be inclined toward a technological society anyway. So why no power outlets? Lighting and cooking fuel would be far more expensive/disruptive to bring from the surface than to tap in the core power for some electric lights and stoves.
5) Why not stainless steel? This one is a minor objection as presumably there is something about this planet that really rips into iron and maybe stainless steel is no solution. So why not molded plastic or some alloy. Presumably the builders would have the expertise to design a process that can do that. If they left behind the knowledge to make power crystals, they could leave behind the knowledge to make special alloys or ceramics or plastics or crystals that can serve the same role as iron. Of course, the back story may explain this. There might be some very good reason why technology was extremely limited except for those elements essential for survival. Power crystals are needed to leave the spire (a necessity as they are not a closed system), but plastic is not. Copper clad weapons are particularly problematic as copper is a soft metal. A single parry of another sword might break the copper clad coating and expose the iron to the air – a very bad thing.
6) Why did nobody give a status update to the Spirarc on what they found? they could easily have sent a messenger to let him know the target was almost certainly the landing and that the Marines were located nearby. They would have needed to get his help to coordinate the guard forces to attack the marines, once they found them. Again no communication at all.
Not meaning to throw stones at a good story, but the above items cause me a mental itch that detracts from my enjoyment of the story. It feels like the author really did not think things through and/or chose to ignore these concerns. A few words or a small paragraph could have alleviated any one of the above "plot problems" without changing anything meaningful in the story at all.
Anybody got some good theories as to why the above are not a real problem.
Second Aristh:
I'm confused. Spires are giant towers. They don't float through the air.
As far as sending messages go, there was real concern about traitors within the spire. It was one of the reasons that the Spirearch didn't use official channels to help Habble Landing with the fires.
dspringer1:
I believe spires float, which is why they use ships to get to the surface The book specifically stated that most cargo comes in the bottom or the top ports, but Spire Albion had a middle. If there is a bottom port, then the spire is not on the ground. But it is possible I misread things. But the impression was that there was no ground contact. If they were on the ground, then at least some housing would extend that way rather than build up the spire.
Send a sealed letter by random messenger. Almost no risk.
Shecky:
Okay, addressing a few of these questions:
- Spires do not float. I don't understand the reasoning of "If there is a bottom port, then the spire is not on the ground." There is an entryway at ground level, but it's like having a shipping dock on the ground on a planet where the critters from the Alien movies are having a big Happy Fun Acid-blood Picnic: not conducive to stepping outside for a smoke.
- Habble Landing's port has two important aspects: 1) It took years and years of wearing down the spirestone wall of their habble (spirestone is tough) to put an opening in it. 2) The port structure was added on by the habble and is not made of spirestone. Habble Landing was born as a middleman in the trade between habbles, to provide much quicker shipping between upper and lower habbles (there are no lifts/elevators inside, so they essentially have rudimentary ships that are really little more than lift crystals with big platforms to raise and lower cargo, turning them into the equivalent to freefloating freight elevators); it's a purely commercial venture by one habble, which can easily be vulnerable to the wolf-in-sheep's-clothing sneak attack that happened in the book (if your firepower is all docked and is suddenly under fire while you're sitting there picking your teeth, say bye-bye à la Pearl Harbor). And the fleet defense was unwisely concentrated by the military leadership around the fleet's port at the top, not at Landing.
- Grimm is frankly understaffed and undergunned for full interdiction on top of everything else he and his crew are trying to do at that particular moment.
- Plastics are out of the question; they require petroleum-analog substances and therefore surface drilling in the places where such analogs are. Most ferrous metals are also out of the question for, well, reasons.
- Getting a message between habbles would involve either an on-foot messenger running up aaaaaaaaaaaaall the ramps between levels or a courier flying outside from Landing to the summit (which, if you don't have a dock, is kind of hard to start).
I truly don't intend to be snarky when I suggest re-reading the book; it will answer these questions even better than my bare-bones explanations can (and be far more entertaining :D ). And keep in mind that Jim, like most good series authors, saves the answers to some questions for a later, plot-boosting scene.
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: dspringer1 on January 28, 2016, 06:03:45 AM ---I believe spires float, which is why they use ships to get to the surface The book specifically stated that most cargo comes in the bottom or the top ports, but Spire Albion had a middle. If there is a bottom port, then the spire is not on the ground. But it is possible I misread things. But the impression was that there was no ground contact. If they were on the ground, then at least some housing would extend that way rather than build up the spire.
Send a sealed letter by random messenger. Almost no risk.
--- End quote ---
No, the Spires are firmly rooted to the ground. Take the Olympian group in the inn in Habble Landing. They were angry that their rooms had been taken after they had to make a dangerous overland journey to Albion.
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