McAnally's (The Community Pub) > Author Craft
Dresden vs everyone in the Genre
novium:
I must strongly disagree. Very strongly. Your comments about cliched interests of women might be true if we were talking about what I think of as "bimbo urban fantasy" - ala undead and unwed, the sookie stackhouse books anymore, etc, but it can hardly be said of Kelley Armstrong or Rachel Kaine's books (i'm not going to defend Kim Harrison nor LKH because they're is a vibe they share and I dislike both of their series). The only one I can think to even slightly apply it to is the most recent Kelley Armstrong book- but let's face it, Jaime is superficially a bimbo.
K.A.'s books seem much more realistic to me, with much more real characters. I love dresden to death, but let's face it, he... fits a mold, in a sense. He's a recognizable character. There aren't a ton of psychological layers there, but don't tell me he doesn't wallow in angst. And to a certain extent, it's necessary, because a good story will have drama and tension, and the characters will have feelings about things, otherwise it is quite, quite boring.
I found webmage quite dull. I couldn't bring myself to care about the main character.
More emphasis on plot and interpersonal relationships?
Please. This is ridiculous to the extreme. men and women do not have such disparate writing styles that you can make such claims.
--- Quote from: Lightsabre on October 19, 2007, 10:44:42 PM ---
Also, I find female writers amp up the relationships, and angst, and male writers don't.
More women than men write fantasy , and so, because it's modern day, I believe, a lot of them become psuedo romances. LEt's face it, there's a lot about clothes and guys and all that sort of stuff in Kelley Armstrong, Rachel Caine, Kim Harrison, LKH. A lot fo time, the female lead worries about her love life, the long, lavish descriptions of clothes, the painstaking description of just how hot every male char is, and very rarely any ugly ones, and so on.
WHereas in DF, or if you've read Marc Del Franco's Unshapely things, or Kelly McCollugh's Webmage, there is more emphasis on plot, more interpersonal relationships, and, (and this will sound sexist) more inclination to have the main char look stupid.
I perosnally believe this makes them look and feel more 3d and real.
Does anyone think Elena, Paige, or Jo-anne Baldwin are as 3d as Harry?
I don't.There is still new and inventive stuff out there, you just need to try and avoid the romance masquarading as urban fantasy.
--- End quote ---
Ursiel:
Series that I really liked were The Inheritence Trilogy (3rd book not out yet) and The Chronicles of Amber. Not really female based or anything, but they're a good series.
seradhe:
--- Quote from: novium on October 20, 2007, 04:06:45 AM ---I must strongly disagree. Very strongly. Your comments about cliched interests of women might be true if we were talking about what I think of as "bimbo urban fantasy" - ala undead and unwed, the sookie stackhouse books anymore, etc, but it can hardly be said of Kelley Armstrong or Rachel Kaine's books (i'm not going to defend Kim Harrison nor LKH because they're is a vibe they share and I dislike both of their series). The only one I can think to even slightly apply it to is the most recent Kelley Armstrong book- but let's face it, Jaime is superficially a bimbo.
--- End quote ---
I agree with your concept of "Bimbo Urban Fantasy", having read Undead and Unwed (as well as Undead and Unemplyed, Undead and Unappreciated, and Undead and Unreturnable). I actually enjoyed MaryJanice Davidsons works because they were so gloriously Shallow in a genre that naturally carries a certain level of depth.
--- Quote ---K.A.'s books seem much more realistic to me, with much more real characters. I love dresden to death, but let's face it, he... fits a mold, in a sense. He's a recognizable character. There aren't a ton of psychological layers there, but don't tell me he doesn't wallow in angst. And to a certain extent, it's necessary, because a good story will have drama and tension, and the characters will have feelings about things, otherwise it is quite, quite boring.
--- End quote ---
Dresden has some of the traits commonplace in the genre for sure. The whole "I have access to a lot of power, but I don't want it" is a pretty average flavor to books.
--- Quote ---
Please. This is ridiculous to the extreme. men and women do not have such disparate writing styles that you can make such claims.
--- End quote ---
I agree fully, but we're not talking about the writing style, more of the main characters P.O.V. in the world.
There isn't a clear-cut line between male and female leads, Unless of course you're comparing Undead and Unwed and, say... Gil's all Fright Diner by A. Lee Martinez.
novium:
I found the first few amusing, but as soon it seemed that I saw the bimbo genre (and more than just urban fantasy) everywhere, the more I tired of it.
I was using 'writing style' in a more full sense, applying it to the kinds of stories told, the types of characters, the descriptions, etc.
There have been many times I have been somewhat surprised to realize that an author was male or female, after reading a book of theirs. Not usually because the book gave me an impression of a gender...but rather the opposite, that the book did nothing to remind me of gender, it just hit upon humanity so perfectly that I forgot about shoving people into categories, and thus the reveal of the author's gender forced me to remember all the societal constructions that go along with it.
--- Quote from: seradhe on October 20, 2007, 08:39:50 AM ---I agree with your concept of "Bimbo Urban Fantasy", having read Undead and Unwed (as well as Undead and Unemplyed, Undead and Unappreciated, and Undead and Unreturnable). I actually enjoyed MaryJanice Davidsons works because they were so gloriously Shallow in a genre that naturally carries a certain level of depth.
Dresden has some of the traits commonplace in the genre for sure. The whole "I have access to a lot of power, but I don't want it" is a pretty average flavor to books.
I agree fully, but we're not talking about the writing style, more of the main characters P.O.V. in the world.
There isn't a clear-cut line between male and female leads, Unless of course you're comparing Undead and Unwed and, say... Gil's all Fright Diner by A. Lee Martinez.
--- End quote ---
seradhe:
--- Quote from: novium on October 20, 2007, 05:39:34 PM ---I found the first few amusing, but as soon it seemed that I saw the bimbo genre (and more than just urban fantasy) everywhere, the more I tired of it.
I was using 'writing style' in a more full sense, applying it to the kinds of stories told, the types of characters, the descriptions, etc.
There have been many times I have been somewhat surprised to realize that an author was male or female, after reading a book of theirs. Not usually because the book gave me an impression of a gender...but rather the opposite, that the book did nothing to remind me of gender, it just hit upon humanity so perfectly that I forgot about shoving people into categories, and thus the reveal of the author's gender forced me to remember all the societal constructions that go along with it.
--- End quote ---
Are we discussing the gender of the author, or the gender of the authors creations? In books written in first person it's a real talent to avoid a gender Bias and write more than so many pages, eventually standard grammar or social practices will reveal it.
I honestly can't think of the last book I've read where the characters gender became a non-point in light of the greater story, I don't think I ever consider the characters' gender to be an issue unless it's brought up within the book (IE the "tough female" character being picked on by a bunch of big macho-male types because they think of her as weak).
As for the authors gender... If I like the story they could be a eunich from Saturn for all I care.
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