Other Jimness > Cinder Spires Spoilers
Should I feel offended?
Tarion:
--- Quote from: Mith on October 26, 2015, 07:53:54 PM ---It could also be a take on historic Spanish economic inefficency with regards to how the silver mines of the New World inflated the Spanish economy in the 1600s.
Basically, I am looking at this as a basis for the European Spaniards, and not in connection with Latin America. But then again, I do not have any roots in Latin America to notice that potential point of view.
--- End quote ---
Yeah, I think you've really got to stretch to tie it into Latin America. I mean, I get why people from that part of the world would do that, but I think that's something that the readers are bringing to the book, rather than something already there.
Spain's economic troubles and it's imperialism aren't really controversial. Reading it, it felt like fairly clear parallels with Phillip II, who faced multiple state bankruptcies (Even with rampant imperialism), sent the Spanish Armada against England, and had notable corruption - He sold off state roles to people with money, but without talent.
Quantus:
Setting aside the question of cultural links to RL nations, I think there are equitable derogatory statements from and about both sides int he stories, and I expect we'll get some for Olympia in the next book as well. The Albion folks arent presented as any more noble or fair-minded than the Aurorans, as I read it. The soldiers had the soldiers mindset of hard actions during war, but so did Grimm and Co. The Aurorans were (click to show/hide)working with the villainess sure, but she in turn was from Albion. And the end (click to show/hide), both the battle and the cooperation after, showed that the aeronautics of both sides were honorable folk that understood and undertook their duty, but that had no desire for unnecessary loss of life. They were true to their word and their given pardon, they assisted in rescue operations to save the men of their captors, they were "indistinguishable save for the absence of swords"* at the funeral proceedings, mingling with the enemy officers like gentlemen. It's a very Victorian-era concept of noble warfar
*approximate quote
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: Quantus on October 27, 2015, 12:21:35 PM ---Setting aside the question of cultural links to RL nations, I think there are equitable derogatory statements from and about both sides int he stories, and I expect we'll get some for Olympia in the next book as well. The Albion folks arent presented as any more noble or fair-minded than the Aurorans, as I read it. The soldiers had the soldiers mindset of hard actions during war, but so did Grimm and Co. The Aurorans were (click to show/hide)working with the villainess sure, but she in turn was from Albion. And the end (click to show/hide), both the battle and the cooperation after, showed that the aeronautics of both sides were honorable folk that understood and undertook their duty, but that had no desire for unnecessary loss of life. They were true to their word and their given pardon, they assisted in rescue operations to save the men of their captors, they were "indistinguishable save for the absence of swords"* at the funeral proceedings, mingling with the enemy officers like gentlemen. It's a very Victorian-era concept of noble warfar
*approximate quote
--- End quote ---
I think the Spirearch's first instinct on (click to show/hide) forcing the Auroran prisoners to work at the base of the Spire as punishment does a good deal to balance the scales against which Spire is more honorable. They both have their weaknesses in individuals and in reputations.
Dina:
I was not talking about the real actions of the characters but about their prejudices, what they think about the others.
--- Quote from: Tarion on October 27, 2015, 09:39:56 AM ---Yeah, I think you've really got to stretch to tie it into Latin America. I mean, I get why people from that part of the world would do that, but I think that's something that the readers are bringing to the book, rather than something already there.
Spain's economic troubles and it's imperialism aren't really controversial. Reading it, it felt like fairly clear parallels with Phillip II, who faced multiple state bankruptcies (Even with rampant imperialism), sent the Spanish Armada against England, and had notable corruption - He sold off state roles to people with money, but without talent.
--- End quote ---
Well, if you offend Spaniards you offend Latin America because many of us have Spanish ancestors. My grandma was from Spain, for instance. So no "very distant relatives" but concrete people we love are from Spain.
Well yes, the historical Spain had those problems. When you extend it to the future or other planets...prejudice.
mikejramsey:
Pirates have to fight somebody. Given the real history, you had French pirates operating out of New Orleans who attacked British shipping but not US shipping. Who do you think supplied the cannons that Andrew Jackson used to defeat the British in the war 1812?
English privateers were given a letter of marque and reprisal authorizing them to become commerce raiders. Spain was richer than England. At the time of queen Elizabeth the first of England, Spanish commerce raiders would have had slim pickings. :-)
I think your husband is reading into the story more than Jim Butcher has written. If it helps, think of the Aurorans as French.
Besides, the divisions between the spires will disappear when they have to face the common enemy.
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