Other Jimness > Cinder Spires Books
Sails?
Quantus:
--- Quote from: knnn on October 27, 2015, 05:57:01 PM ---One thing for sure, if the main lift crystal is actually an engine that just happens to be perpetually pointed straight down, then that a is a colossal waste of energy/power. At the very least, since we know that the crystal can violently slow down a dropping ship, that means that it has enough power to both keep the ship in the air and move it forward. All you would need to do is increase power to the crystal and angle it so that 90% of the thrust is pointing downward and 10% forward. Heck, you could just mount two lift crystals and go zooming around as fast as you want.
That's why I very much agree with Quantus, that the crystals (lift and attitude) can only control up/down. "Inverted Gravity" is probably the best name for it, since it actually uses negative gravity to create the lift. Though even this would have weird physics. Remember that there is an apparent limit to how high the crystal would work (7-8 miles), despite the fact that gravity goes "forever".
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Gravity is directly proportional to distance though, it's not truly "forever." It was mentioned that the lift crystal would be far more efficient at lower altitudes, so I think it just has to work harder the higher you go, until a breaking point is reached. That may have to do with distance from the main "aerosphere" level of the planet, which seem to be where the etheric currents exist in sufficient density for airship web use.
knnn:
--- Quote from: Quantus on October 27, 2015, 06:12:17 PM ---Gravity is directly proportional to distance though, it's not truly "forever." It was mentioned that the lift crystal would be far more efficient at lower altitudes, so I think it just has to work harder the higher you go, until a breaking point is reached. That may have to do with distance from the main "aerosphere" level of the planet, which seem to be where the etheric currents exist in sufficient density for airship web use.
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Unless the radius of the planet is very small, an extra 7-8 miles is pretty negligible in the scale of things, at least with respect to pure gravity. If the crystal gradually stopped working as you went higher, then I think it would be pretty much at it's limit already. The fact that crystal can lift the Predator so quickly implies to me this is not the case.
On the other hand, I seem to recall that sails/steam are supposed to be the prime means of propulsion when you are out of the aerosphere. This implies that the lift crystal works out of the aerospere (otherwise the ship would simply fall). I suppose it's possible that the crystal simply gets weaker as you move further away from the range of the aerosphere...
Still, the fact that ships are built to have means of propulsion out of the aerosphere implies that it's a place that you would normally be required to reach in a ship. To me this all seems to imply that the aerosphere is a narrow band, say 2-4 miles thick floating a mile over the ground. Thus, ship that go to the bottom level need to have steam/wind. This combined with the idea that lift crystal work less well out of the aerosphere might be part of the reason big ships can't do power-dives. If they try to regain lift too slowly, they get to places where the lift crystal is no longer strong enough to slow them down before they hit the ground.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: knnn on October 28, 2015, 01:29:26 AM ---Unless the radius of the planet is very small, an extra 7-8 miles is pretty negligible in the scale of things, at least with respect to pure gravity. If the crystal gradually stopped working as you went higher, then I think it would be pretty much at it's limit already. The fact that crystal can lift the Predator so quickly implies to me this is not the case.
On the other hand, I seem to recall that sails/steam are supposed to be the prime means of propulsion when you are out of the aerosphere. This implies that the lift crystal works out of the aerospere (otherwise the ship would simply fall). I suppose it's possible that the crystal simply gets weaker as you move further away from the range of the aerosphere...
Still, the fact that ships are built to have means of propulsion out of the aerosphere implies that it's a place that you would normally be required to reach in a ship. To me this all seems to imply that the aerosphere is a narrow band, say 2-4 miles thick floating a mile over the ground. Thus, ship that go to the bottom level need to have steam/wind. This combined with the idea that lift crystal work less well out of the aerosphere might be part of the reason big ships can't do power-dives. If they try to regain lift too slowly, they get to places where the lift crystal is no longer strong enough to slow them down before they hit the ground.
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That seems generally sound. Do we know for sure that the currents are actually gone at the lower altitudes? I want to say there was a mention of not using webs down in the mists because they attracted giant predator monsters.
Either way, there are two separate energy paths at play here, I think. Lift crystals get electrical power from the core, which in turn converts ether to electricity, and the older it is the more of one you get from the other, so the efficiency is determined by the crystal properties as much as anything. By contrast the Web requires both electric current from the Core as well as actual Etheric currents for the energized web to interact with. I imagine there is simply a breaking point where the Core can no longer convert enough ether to electricity to drive both the lift crystals and still energize the web enough to get reasonable speed.
knnn:
--- Quote from: Quantus on October 28, 2015, 01:22:30 PM ---That seems generally sound. Do we know for sure that the currents are actually gone at the lower altitudes? I want to say there was a mention of not using webs down in the mists because they attracted giant predator monsters.
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This is from chapter 1. Seems pretty conclusive to me:
--- Quote from: Cinder Spires ---Few airships utilized wind-sails these days. Steam-driven propellers and the new screwlike turbines were the preferred means of locomotion in the event that a ship dropped out of the aerosphere or was becalmed in some portion of the sky without etheric currents strong enough to propel a vessel.
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--- Quote from: Quantus on October 28, 2015, 01:22:30 PM ---I imagine there is simply a breaking point where the Core can no longer convert enough ether to electricity to drive both the lift crystals and still energize the web enough to get reasonable speed.
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Are we saying that the Core gets less powerful as you go out of the aerosphere or that the lift crystal needs more power to maintain altitude as you go further away? I was thinking the latter, but if a core crystal converts etheric energy to electricity then it obviously needs to be in a place where there is sufficient ether.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: knnn on October 28, 2015, 01:57:32 PM ---This is from chapter 1. Seems pretty conclusive to me:
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That's what I was looking at too, but it still doesnt clarify if dont use them lower because they do not function, or because they are beacons to giant etheric monsters that would eat any ship that attracts its attention with active webs. It said in Ch.2 two that the Mistmaws are attracted to powered webbing. The Webbing was being used during the dive, and he said he expected that Journeyman cut the line asap /after/ tehy pulled out of the dive. This implies to me that it is technically possible to use the Webbing for motive force down in the Mists, and that it's just not smart too far from the Spires because of the danger of attracting predators. The fact that barges and Windlaces can float themselves all the way up from the surface would tell me there is at least a little Ether there. Though it's possible that the Spire is actively pulling it down (by Folly's sight) so it may only exist at low altitudes near a spire.
--- Quote ---Are we saying that the Core gets less powerful as you go out of the aerosphere or that the lift crystal needs more power to maintain altitude as you go further away? I was thinking the latter, but if a core crystal converts etheric energy to electricity then it obviously needs to be in a place where there is sufficient ether.
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Both, I think, maybe (depending on the definition of Aerosphere). Gwen says of the first gen core: "IF the crystal was as old as journeyman claimed, it would be able to produce more electricity from less etheric energy than almost any crystal gwen had heard of-- which would mean that the ship could sail to more places, farther and farther from the main etheric currents, and do it more swiftly. Im not clear on how the ether varies with altitude, but it seems to flow around the planet in large, jet-stream style currents by the sound of it, something relatively stable and/or mapable
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