Other Jimness > Cinder Spires Books
Sails?
Maredudd:
With respect to the Trim Crystals, perhaps the trim crystals serve the function of a control surface. I suggest this because modern aircraft use a trim control to help hold the various control surfaces in the set position, to make it easier for the pilot, and its not a big leap to say lets just loose the middle man and say the trim crystal provided the function of the control surface . . .
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Shecky on October 27, 2015, 02:08:34 AM ---That's if you're assuming that lift and trim crystals work in precisely the same manner, which I'm not. But you're certainly correct to point out the control planes; while they wouldn't provide the same order of magnitude of effect as a keel in a denser medium, there'd certainly be torque available.
--- End quote ---
That's true, I'd thought the line that mentioned inverted gravity said both trim and lift crystals, but it doesnt mention trim crystals at all in the list of energy conversion types. Looking into it: earlier, Grimm refers to the new trim crystals as lift crystals in his internal monologue when they first arrive and journeyman is looking them over; that could be indicative of a trim crystals as a subset of Lift Crystal, or just a typo.
I'd say it stands to reason, regardless, that they are simply smaller versions of the same, because from what I can tell, a crystal that could apply thrust directly in the horizontal would be a game-changing technology. It would be core-powered thrust that is entirely protected by the shroud, and if they can be made anywhere near as strong as the main Lift Crystal, they'd be able to accelerate the ship to G's at the limits of their crew's endurance. It's the lack of that sort of horizontal thrust that makes the Dive maneuver so important, because it's the only way they can get that sort of speed.
--- Quote from: Maredudd on October 27, 2015, 02:14:01 AM ---With respect to the Trim Crystals, perhaps the trim crystals serve the function of a control surface. I suggest this because modern aircraft use a trim control to help hold the various control surfaces in the set position, to make it easier for the pilot, and its not a big leap to say lets just loose the middle man and say the trim crystal provided the function of the control surface . . .
--- End quote ---
Reasonable, but the airships do also have control surfaces, though I think they are stationary, so if the trim crystals contribute is only part of it.
Shecky:
I'll freely admit that I've been assuming a particular set of things:
1) That the lift crystal is the big one because that's the one that deals with the biggest force: gravity. It makes structural sense to have a single large one at the center of gravity; it's easiest to design a support system that hinges on one point of force instead of multiple. Having multiple smaller lift crystals distributed throughout the ship would supply a lot of redundancy, true, but it would also make designing supports far more complex and make managing their output perhaps beyond the capacity of a single pilot. It's the way I would do it, anyway. May also have something to do with the higher efficiency/effectiveness of a single large crystal as compared to those of multiple small crystals.
2) That the attitude crystals can't be set to provide force along varying vectors, not just with or against gravity. I've personally seen no reason to think that something that applies a force must be limited to one axis (again, I may easily be wrong on this, so grain of salt, etc.), and with the lift crystal's support system supplying a central axis point, it would therefore be easy to distribute attitude crystals to work around that rotational point in all three dimensions. (Again, see maneuvering thrusters on, for example, Apollo spacecraft.)
A lot of assumptions, I know. But they make engineering sense to my eye.
Quantus:
--- Quote from: Shecky on October 27, 2015, 01:25:25 PM ---I'll freely admit that I've been assuming a particular set of things:
1) That the lift crystal is the big one because that's the one that deals with the biggest force: gravity. It makes structural sense to have a single large one at the center of gravity; it's easiest to design a support system that hinges on one point of force instead of multiple. Having multiple smaller lift crystals distributed throughout the ship would supply a lot of redundancy, true, but it would also make designing supports far more complex and make managing their output perhaps beyond the capacity of a single pilot. It's the way I would do it, anyway. May also have something to do with the higher efficiency/effectiveness of a single large crystal as compared to those of multiple small crystals.
--- Quote ---That's fair. The assupmtion I was under was more or less the same, except that the they were all Lift Crystals in that they are all anti-gravity pumps. The /Main/ Lift crystal is the largest only because it has to take the full load coming out of a Dive, which to do efficiently requires a massive and precisely made, whereas the Trim Crystals are just smaller/younger and easier to mass-produce. They could (barely) hold the load on their own but would be burned out by even light manuevers; the rest of the time they are only there to pivot the ships mass around the Main lift crystal.
At one point gwen lists categories of crystal (Lift, Weapon, Cannon, Power/Core). In another line Folly lists some types and their energy conversions. From the two I come up with the following list of crystal types:
Lumen Crystals: Etheric to Light
Weapon Crystals: Etheric to Heat & Force
Core Crystals: Etheric to Electricity
Cannon Crystals: Electric to Heat & Force
Lift Crystals: Electric to "Inverted Gravity"
--- End quote ---
2) That the attitude crystals can't be set to provide force along varying vectors, not just with or against gravity. I've personally seen no reason to think that something that applies a force must be limited to one axis (again, I may easily be wrong on this, so grain of salt, etc.), and with the lift crystal's support system supplying a central axis point, it would therefore be easy to distribute attitude crystals to work around that rotational point in all three dimensions. (Again, see maneuvering thrusters on, for example, Apollo spacecraft.)
A lot of assumptions, I know. But they make engineering sense to my eye.
--- End quote ---
The only way I can see that the lift crystals would be limited to a single axis is if they are all (main and trim) limited to reversing gravity along it's natural vector, rather than being able to redirect it omni-directionally. But I freely admit that Im looking for a reason, if only to explain why anyone would bother with wind sails (or steam turbines or such flammable and tangle-prone systems like Etheric Webs) if you could channel the electricity that would otherwise be used to charge web into a direct thruster. I dont think it's 100% clear from the text so far, but it's the only way Ive come up with to reconcile the two things in my mind, and has the added bonus of simplifying the 'magic system' of the crystal types. Hopefully we'll get more details next time around. If it centers around airship races as I hope, it would have plenty of reason to pontificate on the technology.
knnn:
--- Quote from: Shecky on October 27, 2015, 01:25:25 PM ---1) That the lift crystal is the big one because that's the one that deals with the biggest force: gravity. It makes structural sense to have a single large one at the center of gravity;
--- End quote ---
One thing for sure, if the main lift crystal is actually an engine that just happens to be perpetually pointed straight down, then that a is a colossal waste of energy/power. At the very least, since we know that the crystal can violently slow down a dropping ship, that means that it has enough power to both keep the ship in the air and move it forward. All you would need to do is increase power to the crystal and angle it so that 90% of the thrust is pointing downward and 10% forward. Heck, you could just mount two lift crystals and go zooming around as fast as you want.
That's why I very much agree with Quantus, that the crystals (lift and attitude) can only control up/down. "Inverted Gravity" is probably the best name for it, since it actually uses negative gravity to create the lift. Though even this would have weird physics. Remember that there is an apparent limit to how high the crystal would work (7-8 miles), despite the fact that gravity goes "forever".
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