Other Jimness > Cinder Spires Spoilers
Intra-Habble Transportation
Quantus:
--- Quote from: knnn on October 19, 2015, 05:14:33 PM ---I agree with you that it depends on the laws, but I don't think it is necessarily the case here. Would you consider the habbles to be more independent than the 50 states of America? Just because there are toll roads along major highways doesn't mean it is necessarily illegal to move things between states on local roads.
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It actually does, depending on what "Things" we are talking about. Interstate commerce is closely watched and regulated, even if it's not to the level of national Customs, where politics get involved more. The most common example I hear about in RL today are people driving down to Southern states and buying cigarettes wholesale, then driving up to New York and selling them without paying all the state taxes on them.
--- Quote ---Heck, if the ducts are established enough, goods that travel through such methods might be welcomed and taxed (taxes that would pay for the local exterminators). Paying taxes to 2 habbles might still be less than the tolls you accrue going through the 20 habbles in the middle.
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That could makes sense, but doesnt seem to be the case here, or at least it's not a significant means of economic goods transport. Otherwise it would have been mentioned along with the toll-roads and the three outside Shipyards (though presumably there is some sort of controlled gate at the surface as well). I could easily see them piggy-backing water lines or vacuum tubes or Lift crystal Floats up air shafts or some such as an inter-habble Postal service, for example.
--- Quote ---Consider also that the high cost of transportation might prevent certain goods from reaching some of the more out-of-the-way habbles. I would think that they would welcome any methods of getting more goods, and just make it legal out of necessity.
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Why make it legal when you can Just Do It? That's precisely why these kinds of organizations form. Your argument is essentially "Why don't they just make everything people Want and Need Legal?" That's a spectacularly good question, but based on empirical evidence I think the answer is "Human Nature".
knnn:
--- Quote from: Quantus on October 19, 2015, 05:50:21 PM ---The most common example I hear about in RL today are people driving down to Southern states and buying cigarettes wholesale, then driving up to New York and selling them without paying all the state taxes on them.
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Ah. I didn't realize that one.
--- Quote from: Quantus on October 19, 2015, 05:50:21 PM ---That could makes sense, but doesnt seem to be the case here, or at least it's not a significant means of economic goods transport. Otherwise it would have been mentioned along with the toll-roads and the three outside Shipyards (though presumably there is some sort of controlled gate at the surface as well).
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Perhaps. Remember that we barely have any discussion of transport. I think that the only quote we have is that 75% of the official goods go through habble (though I don't remember if this is just for Morning or for the entire spire). As a data point, depending how you count it, economists estimate the size of the global black market at about 20% of total GDP.
--- Quote from: Quantus on October 19, 2015, 05:50:21 PM ---Your argument is essentially "Why don't they just make everything people Want and Need Legal?" That's a spectacularly good question, but based on empirical evidence I think the answer is "Human Nature".
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The incentive is that you can then tax it. Taxes for essential items would obviously be lower than for luxury goods, but I do see your point.
kazimmoinuddin:
There is a difference between public transportation and cargo transport.
Nimblegrund:
--- Quote from: knnn on October 15, 2015, 02:05:26 PM ---1) In addition, I don't think we have seen people using carts/wagons to move stuff around. This kinda makes sense, because if you want bulk goods from a different level, I don't see how you get a cart up the equivalent of five flights of stairs.
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Actually, they did transport Ferrus' collection in a couple of wagons/carts. So they do see some use.
--- Quote from: knnn on October 15, 2015, 02:05:26 PM ---3) It would make sense if one of the staircases was blasted away and an elevator put in place. They do have lift crystals after all.
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Are there staircases going between the habbles? I assume that this is the purpose of windlasses, to move people and goods from habble to habble.
--- Quote from: knnn on October 15, 2015, 02:05:26 PM ---6) We also know that there are extensive ducts/vents going between the various levels (for critter and Auroran marine use). Given the tariffs and the traffic, I think it would make sense that there is a lot of smuggling going on through these back routes, and some of the bigger ducts might even be official secondary paths between the habbles.
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I am not 100% sure that the air vents go between habbles, or whether each habble has its own separate ventilation. After all, the silkweavers seemed to be confined to Habble Landing.
--- Quote from: knnn on October 15, 2015, 02:05:26 PM ---10) This makes one wonder why more habbles didn't go the route of Landing and make their own holes in the wall. Obviously there are diminishing returns for every extra hole, but think of a habble midway between Landing and Morning. Bringing goods to this habble from the outside requires transport 2500 feet vertically. That means that (e.g.) every beam of wood on this habble required a human to carry it down (probably - up would be crazy) a distance of the tallest building in the world. It would be real expensive.
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Spirestone seems to be the most durable thing there is, so I don't think that they could put more holes in the wall even if they wanted to. All of the destroyed masonry we see in the book is specifically NOT spirestone, so they may be restricted in what they are able to/are willing to destroy.
kazimmoinuddin:
We do see spiders in habble morning and marines got from morning to landing via the vents, so there must be connections.
Were there any mentions of carts, wagons or anything similar during the book? They dont have horses, so who woul move the goods.
We know only big ships can travel and dock at morning, landing and base. That is the equivalent of a port or a flight bay. What if there are something aking to air hatches? Small access way on each habble. We know that air ships can travel between spires, but there are mentions of other inter habble travels. Those need an avenue of access apart from a port.
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