The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection

Doylist analysis of the Scooby Gang at the climax of Cold Days

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Arjan:

--- Quote from: Eldest Gruff on July 29, 2015, 05:37:57 AM ---That is rather debatable to just be saying 'this is his function' and have done.

--- End quote ---
I usually do that when things are that obvious, I point them out if they were not noticed before.

--- Quote ---Otherwise what is the point of all these theories surrounding who or what he really is to which even the author tells us that there is indeed something more to him that you are ascribing.

--- End quote ---
See the original post. We are looking for Mac's function in the story for that scene

Mac has an overall story purpose as well. Probably several ones and some of that played a role in this scene but it was not the main purpose for this scene.

When I say Bob is a talking head in a scene I do not mean that Bob is only a talking head and never has any other function.

--- Quote ---And the chaos is already there whether Mac is involved or not.

--- End quote ---
Mac is a victim, not the cause.

--- Quote ---The Accords and so called times when guest rights or neutral territory ought to be upheld have long since gone out the window, that's the whole point of Nemesis in the first place.

--- End quote ---
When Mac was kidnapped Harry was still asking himself who was infected, Mab or Maeve. This should have showed him. Mac as a victim dragged from his bar shows the reader how deeply nemesis infected Maeve is (and also how dumb Lilly is if she knew about it)

--- Quote ---These events, these hints, these ideas all exists well within the story whether Mac's gets attacked or not. And its his bar getting attacked that is the 'big deal' if there is any, not him. His bar is Switzerland and neutral but he himself is just 'out'. Being 'out' doesn't make you untouchable.

--- End quote ---
But being in the bar should and where else would he be?

--- Quote ---Charity set aside her power and she's been tossed around physically and emotionally plenty.

--- End quote ---
Sure but what has that to do with this scene?

--- Quote ---On top of all that anyway, the reasons you give again illustrate Watsonian leanings more than Doylist. Mac being there because JB doesn't wanna be seen as a chauvinist who let a bunch of women get kidnapped so he added Mac in is Doylist reasoning. Mac being there because the DV is in 'chaos' and forces, events or character choices have drawn an otherwise normally uninvolved third party into the mix is Watsonian.

--- End quote ---
That is not what I said.

Mac was there because it was the strongest way to show the chaos. He was not interchangeable with any other victim, he was there as a special victim, the only victim that could really show how utterly chaotic everything had become and how paranoid Harry had become. He was there for illustrative purposes.

That is enough to drag him into the story and that is what my post was about. I tried to show what made Mab special as a victim from a story writing perspective. 

Eldest Gruff:

--- Quote from: Arjan on July 29, 2015, 07:42:26 AM ---I usually do that when things are that obvious, I point them out if they were not noticed before.
--- End quote ---

Which again is just your assumption that this is all there is to Mac despite a fair bit evidence to the contrary.


--- Quote ---See the original post. We are looking for Mac's function in the story for that scene

Mac has an overall story purpose as well. Probably several ones and some of that played a role in this scene but it was not the main purpose for this scene.

When I say Bob is a talking head in a scene I do not mean that Bob is only a talking head and never has any other function. Mac is a victim, not the cause.When Mac was kidnapped Harry was still asking himself who was infected, Mab or Maeve. This should have showed him. Mac as a victim dragged from his bar shows the reader how deeply nemesis infected Maeve is (and also how dumb Lilly is if she knew about it)But being in the bar should and where else would he be? Sure but what has that to do with this scene?That is not what I said.

Mac was there because it was the strongest way to show the chaos. He was not interchangeable with any other victim, he was there as a special victim, the only victim that could really show how utterly chaotic everything had become and how paranoid Harry had become. He was there for illustrative purposes.

That is enough to drag him into the story and that is what my post was about. I tried to show what made Mab special as a victim from a story writing perspective.

--- End quote ---

Except again Mac really is NOT the strongest way to show the chaos of everything anyway. You see it that way because you've fit Mac into one peg hole and are basing it entirely on what you perceive to be his 'obvious' function in the story. The fact of the matter is, the entire series and very much that whole book showed the chaos this whole time. That's the whole point of the story, is how screwed up everything that ought to be one way has been going all the while. Mac doesn't enhance that, the only thing he fuels is more fire on the theories about HIM personally.

Tami Seven:
I think Arjan has something there. Even Sharkface was reluctant to enter Mac's Pub. Call it what you will, but Mac's has always been a Safe Haven, up until the time Mac was kidnapped.

That's like declaring war on Switzerland by kidnapping Simonetta Sommaruga.

Eldest Gruff:

--- Quote from: Tami Seven on July 29, 2015, 04:49:06 PM ---I think Arjan has something there. Even Sharkface was reluctant to enter Mac's Pub. Call it what you will, but Mac's has always been a Safe Haven, up until the time Mac was kidnapped.

That's like declaring war on Switzerland by kidnapping Simonetta Sommaruga.

--- End quote ---

Reluctant is a strong word. It implies Sharkface was somehow trying to act deferential to Mac's while in the next breath noting that he DOES attack the bar and in fact does enter it to attack some more. So I don't see much reason to call it reluctance. On top of which, by his own admission, the scene at Mac's was not really Arjan's point anyway, it was his presence on the island.

Griffyn612:
Yeah, I got the impression that Before was more concerned with what he might be facing within the pub, rather than breaking rules.  Throwing yourself into a confined space, breaking whatever supernatural enchantments there might be against using combat magic in said place, to face a formidable starborn wizard, a formidable White Court Vampire, and a man that clearly has knowledge of things, is pretty ballsy. 

I suppose that his Thrice Asked attempt at bringing Harry out might have constituted a "peaaceful" attempt, which might have done something in regards to any magical protections around the place.  Although the Outsiders are from Outside, and fundamentally different from reality, they are still adherent to the magical rules of reality (they couldn't just pass through Demonreach's defensive barrier, a Thrice Asked from Harry later made Before give up his name).  If Mac had some ward that acted similar to Harry's old wards, that somehow reduced a being's magical umph if they tried attacking, then his asking might have been to appease that.  Harry's magical attacks might not have been similarly restricted, as he was a patron defending himself. 

All theoretical nonsense, of course, because we have no reason to believe that's the case.  But it might explain why he bothered with the Thrice Asked.

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