The Dresden Files > DFRPG
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Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: Saracen on June 26, 2015, 11:39:44 AM ---You don't have to give everyone Haki. You need to purchase a stunt to add a new trapping to a skill, so that's what would have to happen for a character to get Haki.
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Then it's not a Presence trapping. It's a trapping for whichever skill you buy the Stunt for.
--- Quote from: Saracen on June 26, 2015, 11:39:44 AM ---In the sense that their attack still went through their incorporeal form? Or that they missed?
--- End quote ---
Went through, I think. Wouldn't swear to it though.
Game-wise it's the same either way.
--- Quote from: Saracen on June 26, 2015, 11:39:44 AM ---That's the one I was looking at, actually. With costly, I meant in terms of stress. Yes, consequences are a thing, but still. As written, the power doesn't even allow mental/physical Toughness powers to help, and with how much Haki is throw around by New World users, I don't think you can justify it.
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If you want using Haki to have a cost, you can't really go lower than this. And I think four shots per fight is usually enough, though some characters might demand Powers that give extra stress boxes. I'm not sure why you think it bypasses Mental Toughness; far as I can tell it just ignores armour and extra physical stress boxes. Which is necessary balance-wise, because of the whole 1-Refresh Mythic Toughness thing. But Paranet Papers Mental Toughness should work fine with SMA.
Of course, it's also possible to narrate an attack as using Haki even if you're not spending stress on it.
Saracen:
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on June 26, 2015, 08:01:29 PM ---Then it's not a Presence trapping. It's a trapping for whichever skill you buy the Stunt for.
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Sure, but you need justification for such things, don't you? You shouldn't just put it under Contacts because that's your character's best skill. It needs to make sense. Thematically, Presence makes the most sense, then Conviction. Maybe Discipline, but that's stretching it for me.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on June 26, 2015, 08:01:29 PM ---If you want using Haki to have a cost, you can't really go lower than this. And I think four shots per fight is usually enough, though some characters might demand Powers that give extra stress boxes. I'm not sure why you think it bypasses Mental Toughness; far as I can tell it just ignores armour and extra physical stress boxes. Which is necessary balance-wise, because of the whole 1-Refresh Mythic Toughness thing. But Paranet Papers Mental Toughness should work fine with SMA.
--- End quote ---
I assumed additional mental stress boxes were not mentioned because the custom power preceeded Mental Toughness from the Paranet Papers. Whoever created it probably only specified the additional physical boxes because only those existed at the time. Anyway, it can work and I'm warming up to the idea, although I still find it more "canon" to have Haki linked to Presence. With SMA, though, it's sort-of linked to Conviction (indirectly) which is the next best thing, in my mind. Any fight against a Logia user is going to leave you in terrible shape, but I guess that's staying true to the manga. How would you handle this?
Spectral Strike (2 stress): The enhanced attack interacts with spirits and other immaterial things as though they were solid.
Does this completely nullify the Physical Immunity of Logia Fruits?
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: Saracen on June 26, 2015, 11:52:33 PM ---Sure, but you need justification for such things, don't you? You shouldn't just put it under Contacts because that's your character's best skill. It needs to make sense. Thematically, Presence makes the most sense, then Conviction. Maybe Discipline, but that's stretching it for me.
--- End quote ---
Arms haki could be Fists, Guns, Weapons, or Might. Observation haki could be Alertness or Investigation. Supreme king haki could be Intimidation.
So there's a fair bit of wiggle room. At least if you're not using multiple types of haki.
--- Quote from: Saracen on June 26, 2015, 11:52:33 PM ---I assumed additional mental stress boxes were not mentioned because the custom power preceeded Mental Toughness from the Paranet Papers. Whoever created it probably only specified the additional physical boxes because only those existed at the time.
--- End quote ---
I'm pretty sure it was intended to work with Resilience, but not with Stoicism. Since PP Mental Toughness is designed for spellcasting, it ought to be allowed with Supernatural Martial Arts too.
We might be able to ask the original author, but I don't remember who it was. Might even have been me. It was years ago.
--- Quote from: Saracen on June 26, 2015, 11:52:33 PM ---Anyway, it can work and I'm warming up to the idea, although I still find it more "canon" to have Haki linked to Presence. With SMA, though, it's sort-of linked to Conviction (indirectly) which is the next best thing, in my mind. Any fight against a Logia user is going to leave you in terrible shape, but I guess that's staying true to the manga.
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I'm thinking that the hit-Logias part could be free, along with the tanking-attacks part. Haki could be four Powers: a new one for basic arms haki, Supernatural Sense for basic observation haki, Supernatural Martial Arts to expand both, and a new one for the haki of the supreme king.
Speaking of supreme king haki, it's probably just a weak mental attack with an infinite number of targets. Maybe without rolling, since it seems very binary: it works or it doesn't.
Spitballing here:
HAKI OF THE SUPREME KING [-2]
Description: Whatever
Skills Affected: Presence, Conviction, Intimidation
Effects:
Something. As an action, you can make a mental attack against any number of targets within your line of sight. Use your skill - 3, they defend with their Conviction, Presence, or Discipline. Everyone rolls 0 automatically. Weapon rating is your skill. You can only target people once per scene.
Something else. You can maybe defend people from this Power somehow, since the Marineford battle didn't have all the mooks falling unconscious as I remember it.
--- Quote from: Saracen on June 26, 2015, 11:52:33 PM ---How would you handle this?
Spectral Strike (2 stress): The enhanced attack interacts with spirits and other immaterial things as though they were solid.
Does this completely nullify the Physical Immunity of Logia Fruits?
--- End quote ---
I'd say no. It obviously wasn't written with One Piece in mind, and I don't think it should be that easy to beat down Logia users.
That's just me, though.
Saracen:
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on June 27, 2015, 12:28:17 AM ---Arms haki could be Fists, Guns, Weapons, or Might. Observation haki could be Alertness or Investigation. Supreme king haki could be Intimidation.
--- End quote ---
I disagree. I see this from a pretty different perspective. If you want Haki, it needs to be based on Presence/Conviction. If you want the effects Haki gives you but under another skill, make a custom power with a different name and theme. Mechanically, they could be (virtually) the same, narratively they will differ.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on June 27, 2015, 12:28:17 AM ---I'm thinking that the hit-Logias part could be free, along with the tanking-attacks part.
--- End quote ---
So it downgrades Physical Immunity? Every Toughness Power of Devil Fruit users? And with "the tanking-attacks part", do you mean just having the option to roll Endurance, or would you make also applying armor free?
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on June 27, 2015, 12:28:17 AM ---HAKI OF THE SUPREME KING [-2]
Description: Whatever
Skills Affected: Presence, Conviction, Intimidation
Effects:
Something. As an action, you can make a mental attack against any number of targets within your line of sight. Use your skill - 3, they defend with their Conviction, Presence, or Discipline. Everyone rolls 0 automatically. Weapon rating is your skill. You can only target people once per scene.
Something else. You can maybe defend people from this Power somehow, since the Marineford battle didn't have all the mooks falling unconscious as I remember it.
--- End quote ---
I'm not sure I get it:
Luffy (or whoever) uses his Presence (or whatever) minus 3 without rolling it, that's the attack against the Presence (or whatever) skill value of the targets. Luffy's whole Presence (or whatever) is then applied as Weapon rating against whoever is hit.
Did I get it right?
I'm not sure about Something Else. I think it's reasonable that some mooks at Marineford would resist it on their own.
--- Quote from: Sanctaphrax on June 27, 2015, 12:28:17 AM ---I'd say no. It obviously wasn't written with One Piece in mind, and I don't think it should be that easy to beat down Logia users.
That's just me, though.
--- End quote ---
No, no. I agree.
Anyway, it would be awesome to play a game set in the One Piece world. I think the DFRPG rules would fit it pretty well. Someone should set it up!
Sanctaphrax:
--- Quote from: Saracen on June 27, 2015, 01:17:27 PM ---I disagree. I see this from a pretty different perspective. If you want Haki, it needs to be based on Presence/Conviction. If you want the effects Haki gives you but under another skill, make a custom power with a different name and theme. Mechanically, they could be (virtually) the same, narratively they will differ.
--- End quote ---
If you look at how Zoro uses Haki, though, it's all about his superlative sword mastery. Force of personality and will don't seem to enter into it. Same goes for Mihawk.
And in the Skypeia arc, Mantra seemed like an extra sense. Probably Alertness based.
--- Quote from: Saracen on June 27, 2015, 01:17:27 PM ---So it downgrades Physical Immunity? Every Toughness Power of Devil Fruit users? And with "the tanking-attacks part", do you mean just having the option to roll Endurance, or would you make also applying armor free?
--- End quote ---
Yes.
And I'm thinking you could roll Endurance and use the result as armour.
--- Quote from: Saracen on June 27, 2015, 01:17:27 PM ---Luffy (or whoever) uses his Presence (or whatever) minus 3 without rolling it, that's the attack against the Presence (or whatever) skill value of the targets. Luffy's whole Presence (or whatever) is then applied as Weapon rating against whoever is hit.
Did I get it right?
--- End quote ---
Yes. So if Luffy has Superb Presence, you need a skill of at least 3 to avoid taking a weapon 5 hit. Everyone tough in One Piece ought to have that, but mooks don't. So they collapse by the thousands.
--- Quote from: Saracen on June 27, 2015, 01:17:27 PM ---I'm not sure about Something Else. I think it's reasonable that some mooks at Marineford would resist it on their own.
--- End quote ---
Some, sure. But I got the impression that since they had their own monstrous Haki on their side, being Haki-blasted wasn't really a concern for them.
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