The Dresden Files > DFRPG

Magical Mechanics (& advancement)

<< < (2/3) > >>

finarvyn:

--- Quote from: DDR on October 04, 2007, 12:19:03 AM ---Magic rules and character advancement seem to be the major issues to work out in a Dresden game.
--- End quote ---
Yep. It's the magic rules that will make or break the DFRPG, which is why it's so important to get it right. We know that FATE works, but it's the magic system that will need exhaustive playtest.

Character advancement is always a function of where the character begins. If the intent is to start out experienced wizards, aged vampires, or whatever, then advancement is a secondary issue because the characters have already reached some level of apex.

On the other hand, if the intent is to start with novice-level characters then advancement is crititcal to the game. Your example of Billy the Were is a great one, because as the books continue we see an evolution of his character from a lost youth into a competent combatant. Molly Carpenter shows us another case of a character starting out confused by the magical world around her, and (we assume) slowly building into a qualified wizard. If rules for this sort of progression aren't carefully balanced, the game sort of crumbles with time.


--- Quote from: DDR on October 04, 2007, 12:19:03 AM ---I think the system's lack of hard and fast numbers is plus to working out unusual stuff.
--- End quote ---
It should be an advantage, as long as there are no clear ways to "break" the system. Based on my SOTC games, FATE3 would seem to be ready for the challenge.

Aerhen:
personally i like the idea of a pyramid system for advancement of magical skills... because so far as i have seen most of the competant wizards that have been around have knowledge of other magical areas, but they dont necessarily have enormous skill in them...  so it prevents the over balanced character who wants to do nothing but specialize.

and this system provides well for a apprenticeship approach where you buy aspects initially in the mentor and magical skills.. and as u progress as a mage you switch out aspects from the teacher to the student representing his increase in skills and his relying less on his master and more on himself.

this can also be represented by switching out of specialized items given to the student to aid in his learning and replacing them with the requisite skill..  no power is sacrificed in the character.. but it is merely relocated..

there is tremendous potential everywhere you look..

The Last Bean:
I definitely liked the "slowing people down" aspect of the pyramid system, but I ran into quite a few players who couldn't wrap their heads around balancing their pyramids. It really detracted from the game experience for them, and they started wishing they could "just level their character up like in DnD"... which scared me silly cause I hate DnD. I came up with a nice alternative that creates almost the same mechanic, but also makes room for *slightly* more specialized characters that don't have quite as wide a base. In a single sentence: "You must wait a number of phases equal to a skill's level before you may raise that skill again, and you may not raise a skill more than once in the same phase"

This means that you can relatively quickly raise your skills to "good", taking the same skill two phases in a row, but after that, you must wait at least a phase before raising it higher, (so your character could achieve a "great" on their 4th phase) and two phases after that, and so on. End result: nothing above a "great" at the start of a typical 5-phase character creation, and only a couple skills that the character has been practicing their entire life qualify. More importantly to my problem, the advancement of a given skill is no longer inherently tied to the levels of all the other skills, resulting in significantly less "bookkeeping" when it comes time to advance a character. I do miss the "how does basketweaving help my swordplay" explanation, but my players seem to enjoy it quite a bit more.

As far as staying true to the system, in my experience the skill-lists that result are almost always pyramids or lower tiered "mesas" anyways, but every now and then you get a fairly specialized character with only 6 or 7 skills that are all in the good/great area. A classic specialist who has their own unique gameplay challenges to deal with, which I think actually adds to the game by allowing characters with relatively broad/narrow skillsets to exist, and creating less "overlap" between character's skills so that each player feels like they're more unique.

This was kinda based off the idea that when you first start learning a skill in real life, you make progress quickly because there is so much to learn, and just getting all the basics down will significantly improve your results in that area. But as you become more proficient, raising yourself above that level takes more time and dedication, teachers become harder to find, and a lot of time you have to start inventing your own methods or techniques, resulting in longer time between discrete improvements.

Thoughts as to how this would work for a magic advancement system?

Aerhen:
the way i explained the pyramid to my players was as follows... 

in order for a pyramid to be legitimate, you have to have at least one more skill in a supporting level to be balanced.. so if you wanted 1 level three skill you need 2 level two skills.. and in order to have 2 level 2 skills you needed 3 level 1... 

so if you waanted another level 2 skill.. you must first gain another level 1 skill...   what this really means is that you may never have the same number of skills as there are in the supporting level.. 

is this a good explanation??

Kristine:
also as this is a more free form and subjective system I think it would behove the GM to say that you can't have a skill unless you have taken the time (power, magic...ect) to use it.  You can't buy a skill your character has not at least tried once and failed.

It would be nice if a game system wasn't all about piling up skills, feats and stats but was more about developing the quirks and uniqueness of the characters.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page