The Dresden Files > DFRPG

Magical Mechanics (& advancement)

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The Last Bean:

--- Quote from: Aerhen on January 09, 2008, 02:47:19 AM ---
is this a good explanation??


--- End quote ---

I'd say so. The nice thing about the pyramid is that it can be explained in about three sentences. The problem players had was actually the paperwork involved in doing the advancement. Like when they want to move something on the bottom tier up, but they can't because they need THREE skill points to raise it and two other things and then they have to wait two weeks to advance anything, and some people never got the hang of balancing things.

Definitely a good suggestion, Kristine. I've generally said that you can't buy up a skill you don't use, but the "tried once and failed" rule is a good one. Gives them a definite point at which they can think 'I'm allowed to improve this now'.

Visitor:
The pyramid is a good basis.

The way you've described using it is best for when all you do is learn the spell, but you don't gain ranks/level/skill for that particular spell. You then use some stat elsewhere for the character to determine how good you are with it. This is basically how D&D does it, with the other stat being the character's level.

If you allow the character to gain ability for a spell, then it would be better to take the pyramid and turn it onto its edge. This works by requiring that you to have a lower level spell with its rank greater than a the rank of a spell that you have at the next higher level.

For example, if you have a first level spell with rank 4, then you could have a second level spell with, at most , rank 3.

Note that each spell can only be used once for a spell a the next higher level.

Continuing the previous example, and assuming the character only had the listed two spells, before you could gain another second level spell at rank 1, you would first have to have another first level spell with at least a rank of 2.

To look at this another way, from the 'top-down':
If you want your character to have 2 third level spells at rank 2, each, you will need at least:
* 2 second level spells at rank 3, each
* 2 first level spells at rank 4, each

Having your magical mechanics work this way forces the characters to be very good at the basic spells, while not so good with the more advanced, powerful spells.

Aerhen:
the way i see that they might be doing the magic effects in this.. is not necessarily based on the pyramid system.

It looks like they are leaning to stunts.. and if you look at the way they are doing stunts in SotC the more powerful a stunt is, it has specific requirements before they can be taken.  so the more powerful spells would require more pre requisites...

until i actual see the spell and magic system however.. i can only speculate based on what they have discussed here

Aerhen:
to further clarify, they are differentiating between skill and power.  The more skill u have in something, the more flexiblity u have in the way the effect resolves.  The more skill, the more potential shifts u can use to modify the effect, the duration of the effect, or the time in which it takes to accomplish the result.

With using stunts, u can have less skill but be more powerful in what your magic can do..  Harry is an excellent example of someone who has lots of stunts, and stunts which have powerful effects, but he doesnt have a lot of corresponding skill, because his results are not as reliable as he would like. 

This system provides a very nice flexible system for magical progression in learning and skill that does not automatically translate into more powerful.  It reflects a real world availibility that i really enjoy..

The Last Bean:
~nodnod~ I did something similar in a starwars game once. It was based off FATE 1.0, and a "force user" had aspects (that would currently be called "stunts") that allowed access to certain areas of the Force. (like mind control and such) but the actual SKILLS behind the force were "power" "control" and "empathy" of which the most relevant was used on any given roll. Helping someone else jump with the force was power more than empathy, but using the force to speed them up in combat was empathy, whereas flying your weapon over to protect them was control. Was pretty interesting gameplay and to date the most successful game I have ever run.

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