Magically Burned-Out Character

[theevillime]

Hey,

I've got a concept for my groups DF game and I was hoping you could help me figure out the best (and fairest) way of statting it: A burned-out wizard, one who's broken a number of oaths on his power and thereby had it reduced. Further, his self-belief is reduced to the point of his having a very low conviction.

Now, while I intend to carry a low conviction and a variety of compelable aspects (akin to "I don't do magic anymore"), the setting material does suggest that it's not so much that the power is gone, just that your capacity to use it is greatly reduced. So, I'm trying to figure out how to represent this. I want to occasionally be able to toss out a spell, to surprise the group, but I don't want to dominate our focused practitioner PCs (I'm adding this character to an established group, following the death of my previous one) so I'm thinking of taking ritual and channeling, in areas that don't cross over theirs.

However, the character would still be a White Council Wizard: The sight, soul gaze, constitution and social status (if he ever lets the council know he's alive) are all there. I'm wondering if these bonuses are essentially wrapped up in the Musts for the Wizard high-concept and if I'm sort-of having my cake and eating it by opting out of taking Evocation & Thaumaturgy. In theory, those could be kept in check by RP and compels, but if we're cornered then I would be sorely tempted to use that to save our asses... and that kind of power differential would start to push me towards protagonist in what's intended to be an ensemble piece.

Thoughts, advice, etc?   

[Rossbert]

A conviction of 1 with a full wizard should not outshine anyone who plays with the standard 4-5 power wizards.  You should take the full forms and just not have the power anymore to do much.

[theevillime]

The others aren't playing Wizards, they're playing focused practitioners: An Earth evoker and an item making ritualist respectively. We've just had a few milestones since then and the wizard template is affordable now. I would also have enough Lore (since one doesn't forget that) to threaten the ritualist for his thing with Thaumaturgy.

[Jabberwocky]

What about tying your power to a mechanism similar to a sponsor debt? Ok, it's possible to go "full wizard" for a while but that won't last long and it will cost you later, preventing you from using it too often.

[theevillime]

That... could be quite close to what I'm looking for.

[Rossbert]

I think it's still way more complicated that just going low conviction full-wizard.  You can do something big, and run yourself into the ground, or you just putter around, while everyone else is reliably doing big, but specific things.

[Haru]

The templates are more what you would call guidelines, than actual rules.

Damn, I can't stop using that quote.

Anyway, if the character was part of the council, he was part of the council, that's not limited to a template, that's just who he is. If you want to reap some additional benefit from it, you could take "Marked by Power" and tweak it, so it doesn't mean marked by a powerful being, but the fact that he was part of the council still holds some weight around the supernatural.

As for a spellcasting power, how about this:

Lingering Magical Power [-1]: Once per scene, you may use discipline instead of another skill.

You could replace the weapon skill to throw something, you can replace the burglary skill to open a lock, you can replace the athletics skill to jump a fence. As long as you can describe it in a magical way, you can do a small time spell. Depending on what kind of thing you do, I would see how long it might take, if it is more evocation style (weapons, for example) or more thaumaturgy style (burglary).

You could also add the sponsor debt here, if you like, either by always having to take sponsor debt when using this, or maybe have one free use per session and then take sponsor debt. Depends on how often you think you might want to use this.

[Sanctaphrax]

However, the character would still be a White Council Wizard: The sight, soul gaze, constitution and social status (if he ever lets the council know he's alive) are all there. I'm wondering if these bonuses are essentially wrapped up in the Musts for the Wizard high-concept and if I'm sort-of having my cake and eating it by opting out of taking Evocation & Thaumaturgy. In theory, those could be kept in check by RP and compels, but if we're cornered then I would be sorely tempted to use that to save our asses... and that kind of power differential would start to push me towards protagonist in what's intended to be an ensemble piece.

Thoughts, advice, etc?

I wouldn't worry about being too strong. I'd worry about being too weak. Your character sounds...not useless, but distinctly underpowered. And both "earth evoker" and "item making ritualist" are Focused Practitioner concepts with the potential to outcompete full Wizards.

Besides, it's hard to overshadow the rest of your group with stuff like The Sight, Soulgaze, and Wizard's Constitution. 1 Refresh worth of stuff isn't enough to much overshadowing, as a general rule.

Lingering Magical Power [-1]: Once per scene, you may use discipline instead of another skill.

This kind of thing should generally cost a Fate Point for each use, I think.

[Katarn]

What about tying your power to a mechanism similar to a sponsor debt? Ok, it's possible to go "full wizard" for a while but that won't last long and it will cost you later, preventing you from using it too often.

I think this idea a lot.  As others have said, the biggest concern is that you remain underpowered for too long, while the other players are able to do strong specific things.

One could argue the Sponsor debt is to the oaths themselves.  Part of your character arc could be working to restore your magic, if you so chose.  It would allow your character more gradual (and story reasons) access to powers when necessary.  Or, more simply, you could stat out nearly a full wizard, put some kind of [+1 or 2] damper on abilities (they work only in dire cases or once per scene), and have the GM dole out Fate Points to not use your powers generously (though that could have some backfire if there are too many FPs floating around).

[Troy]

I wouldn't worry about being too strong. I'd worry about being too weak. Your character sounds...not useless, but distinctly underpowered. And both "earth evoker" and "item making ritualist" are Focused Practitioner concepts with the potential to outcompete full Wizards.

I don't think any Focused Practitioner could potentially outcompete full Wizards. Ever.

Unless you lift the arbitrary restrictions on the Channeling and Ritual powers. I say arbitrary because those restrictions seems to have no other purpose than to specifically prevent Focused Practitioners from competing with Wizard's in the long haul. In another thread, at another time, you agreed with that assessment.

[Sanctaphrax]

To be honest I was thinking of a "focused practitioner" with just Evocation or just Thaumaturgy. But you're right, those aren't technically Focused Practitioners.

That being said, I think someone with Ritual (Crafting) and a bunch of Refinements might be able to out-do someone with Evocation and Thaumaturgy. They'll still lose out to someone with Thaumaturgy and a bunch of Crafting-focused Refinements, though. Crafting is really strong, and if you're really good at it Evocation starts looking like a bad investment.

[PirateJack]

Same as in the books, really. All the really big stuff that's happened in the Dresden Files was done via Thaumaturgy.

[Troy]

To be honest I was thinking of a "focused practitioner" with just Evocation or just Thaumaturgy. But you're right, those aren't technically Focused Practitioners.

That being said, I think someone with Ritual (Crafting) and a bunch of Refinements might be able to out-do someone with Evocation and Thaumaturgy. They'll still lose out to someone with Thaumaturgy and a bunch of Crafting-focused Refinements, though. Crafting is really strong, and if you're really good at it Evocation starts looking like a bad investment.

If you have the Ritual power... the number of Refinements you can buy is limited... unless that is a holdover rule that is in my very old PDF version of the book. But that's why I say someone with Ritual or Channeling can't match a Wizard over the long haul. Full Thaumaturgy lets you buy an unlimited number of Refinements, though.

I think it would be awesome to be able to buy Ritual (Crafting) and have as many Refinements as you'd like. That surely would make a Refresh 10 Arcane Artificer better at Crafting than a Refresh 10 Wizard who specializes in Crafting, too.

EDIT: Re-reading your reply, I think we are saying the same thing and are on the same page. As always, thanks for your time!

[vultur]

If you have the Ritual power... the number of Refinements you can buy is limited... unless that is a holdover rule that is in my very old PDF version of the book. But that's why I say someone with Ritual or Channeling can't match a Wizard over the long haul. Full Thaumaturgy lets you buy an unlimited number of Refinements, though.

Not so much number, but what you use them for:

"You may gain more Item Slots as one of the options on the Refinement ability (page 182)—but you may only buy Refinement for that purpose."

So yes, at high enough Refresh wizards ultimately win out. Which I think makes sense in the Dresdenverse; if that character gets THAT much more powerful, he'll probably end up with full Evocation and Thaumaturgy. A focused practitioner can be better at his specific field than a full wizard who isn't specialized in that field (like Mort vs Harry in ectomancy), but not better than a strong full wizard who IS specialized in that field.

[Troy]

Not so much number, but what you use them for:

"You may gain more Item Slots as one of the options on the Refinement ability (page 182)—but you may only buy Refinement for that purpose."

So yes, at high enough Refresh wizards ultimately win out. Which I think makes sense in the Dresdenverse; if that character gets THAT much more powerful, he'll probably end up with full Evocation and Thaumaturgy. A focused practitioner can be better at his specific field than a full wizard who isn't specialized in that field (like Mort vs Harry in ectomancy), but not better than a strong full wizard who IS specialized in that field.

It's Harry's opinion that Morty is better at ecotmancy than he is, but mechanically, that's not supported. I'm saying that it would be cool if an Ecotmancer focused practitioner could be better than a Wizard ectomancy specialist. "Evolving" from a focused practitioner to a wizard or thaumaturgist or whatever is an option, but it would be nice if that wasn't the only option. If I wanted to be a Wardmaster forcused practitioner, it would be cool to just be awesome at that and not have to worry about dabbling in other magics if I don't need to...

It sort of goes back to a thought that I have that says the only reason to choose Channeling or Ritual over their more powerful counterparts is because your Refresh limits you. If you have the Refresh to play a "sorcerer" or wizard, the game encourages that over any other kind of magic user.