The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Harry's murders of Non-humans! (Cold Days spoilers)
ebliss1:
--- Quote ---I know the talk is about Fae/Sidhe but it applies to this conundrum that always bothered me.
If Harry killed Ebenezar with Magic, he'd be a lawbreaker, a black magic Warlock destined for the chopping block. It would also affect him in other ways since Eb is not only mortal but Family.
If Harry killed Thomas with Magic, no laws would be broken. He would not be considered a warlock and no retribution would be sought. Yet, in theory, it should also have an effect on him because Thomas is Family as well.
Thing is, Thomas has free will, has a soul, and has the potential to 'theoretically' become human. Despite that, he is fair game even to his own brother.
I can see why Margaret LeFay had issues with the Laws of Magic.
--- End quote ---
I've always had the same issue with Jim's magic rules in the DV.
If Harry uses a magical wind to blow a killer off of a mortal and the killer accidentally falls over and cracks his skull on the pavement, Harry is a warlock and must die immediately before he can kill again. If Harry were to just pull out his .44 magnum and shoot a random citizen, he's not a warlock, just (for lack of a better term) a jerk in the eyes of the White Council.
But, it's Jim's sandbox and he sets the rules.
Mira:
--- Quote from: ebliss1 on November 19, 2013, 03:59:05 PM ---Mercy in the Winter Court is for the weak. And Mab will not stand for a weak Knight, since a Knight's weakness reflects on her. Mab expects her rules to be obeyed without question, and the penalty for breaking them is death. For her Knight, the "Fist of Mab" so to speak, those rules must be the same.
If Harry does anything less than what they have come to expect from their Queen, he is perceived as weak. If so, they will look to bring him down. If he were to, instead, horribly maim or cripple the Sidhe who challenged him, that Sidhe would spend an inordinate amount of time plotting vengeance. For Harry, dealing with predatory nobles who try to take advantage of his weakness, or fending off plots from his still-living victim would take time away from his duties, another thing Mab is less than thrilled about.
Also remember, as Harry observed in White Night among the Whampires, these Sidhe are effectively immortal. Death as a concept to them has a whole different meaning than it does to mortals. For them to risk death, and the millenia they would be throwing away as a result of coming out on the wrong side of the risk-reward ration, would represent a HUGE downside for them. With Harry's swift action, every Sidhe now has to weigh "torture a mortal for a few hours of fun and risk oblivion, or forgoe a few hours of fun and ensure thousands of years of existence".
Additionally, since these Sidhe are effectively immortal, the at-best couple centuries Harry would be around as Winter Knight will pass in the virtual blink of an eye.
So, no. In my opinion, anything short of what Harry did would have been a long-term disaster for him. Either he'd have doomed himself to non-stop attacks from the Winter Sidhe who would constantly test him for weakness, or Mab would have killed him outright for showing weakness in front of her entire Court.
--- End quote ---
Which goes to my chicken analogy.. The Winter Court is not known for it's mercy nor it's benevolence, and they'd show none for Harry if he had answered the first challenge in any other way. That is their way. I think one has to also look at what Kringle said to Harry at the end of the book.
--- Quote ---"Never let her make you cringe--but never challenge her pride, wizard. I don't know exactly what passed between you, but I suspect that if it was witnessed by another, she would break you to pieces, I've seen it before. Terrible pride in that creature. She'll never bend it."
--- End quote ---
There is more to it than just Mab's pride being hurt. If she showed weakness her Court would take her out. If Harry showed weakness, she'd take him out. So as shocked or troubled as some are by what Harry did at the beginning of the book, it is what he had to so in order to survive his new status as Winter Knight.. There was no other way to respond and make his own strength and power understood. That is how the Winter Court and the high Sidhi think, their ways are not human.
raidem:
The White Council and the Laws of Magic are mainly about restraining wizards from misusing magic and protecting the mortal world from their predations when it involves black magic. The mortal world has its own Laws with respect to how mortals behave. I would assume that the White Council allows the mortal authorities to deal with illegal nonmagical acts by wizards. WC would only step in if their were violations of the magical laws. Though their are flaws with this setup, I do see the need for the council to constrain such actions.
raidem:
--- Quote ---So as shocked or troubled as some are by what Harry did at the beginning of the book, it is what he had to so in order to survive his new status as Winter Knight.. There was no other way to respond and make his own strength and power understood. That is how the Winter Court and the high Sidhi think, their ways are not human.
--- End quote ---
To say there were no other way to respond is grossly misunderstanding the alternatives open to Harry. Sure, it is a bad ass way to behave. And, it is an effective way to write the situation where Harry acted in the way he did. To suggest though that Harry is unmarred by his actions is false. We know that Harry will slide toward acting more like a Monster. The WK mantle will win some. Look at how Harry behaved in his confrontation with Maeve toward the end of Cold Days. That was an obvious act whereby Harry slid to the mantle controlling him rather than him controlling it.
Mira:
--- Quote from: raidem on November 19, 2013, 05:00:33 PM ---To say there were no other way to respond is grossly misunderstanding the alternatives open to Harry. Sure, it is a bad ass way to behave. And, it is an effective way to write the situation where Harry acted in the way he did. To suggest though that Harry is unmarred by his actions is false. We know that Harry will slide toward acting more like a Monster. The WK mantle will win some. Look at how Harry behaved in his confrontation with Maeve toward the end of Cold Days. That was an obvious act whereby Harry slid to the mantle controlling him rather than him controlling it.
--- End quote ---
We know? We do not know what the future holds. Did he act as a monster? If he were, he wouldn't have held a conversation with her. No one suggests that he is unmarred by his actions, at the same time let's not pretend that he had a whole lot of good choices either.
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