The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Harry's murders of Non-humans! (Cold Days spoilers)
vultur:
--- Quote from: Discussion Bored on November 08, 2013, 01:53:31 AM ---Can someone clarify the rules of immortality in regards to the fae, or in the DV in general? Do you have to have a powerful mantle? IIRC, Harry thought it was impossible to kill Maeve initially. The same goes for the creatures on Demonreach (they would return eventually). I'm wondering at what point creatures get the ability to come back from something like what Harry did at the party.
--- End quote ---
The term is used ambiguously in the books at times - at one point Harry says to Bob that "everything there [the NN] is immortal".
Ordinary Fae are "immortal" in the sense of not aging, and they are not "mortal" in the sense of having mortal free will and the metaphysical weight/significance that goes along with it (breaking circles, etc.) either. Similarly for spirit denizens of the Nevernever like knowledge-spirits such as Bob and "thug demons" like Kalshazzak; the latter also have the extra benefit that when they're summoned to the real world, it's in an ectoplasm construct body, so when they're killed in the mortal world they're not really dead since it's not their real body. (This is discussed in GP in the context of the Nightmare possibly being a demon's ghost).
A rare set of powerful beings, such as the Faerie Queens, are "immortal" in the Cold Days sense. These beings are restored / regenerate even if "killed"; death is only temporary for them. However, on Halloween night, and in other special situations like the Stone Table (for Sidhe immortals anyway) they can be killed permanently, but their "mantle" passes to someone else, who likely eventually becomes a near copy of the original being. The info on this is from Bob in Cold Days.
Discussion Bored:
Thanks for the clarifications.
I suppose what I'm wondering is, since Bob had not yet explained about how to actually kill an immortal, do we have any reason to believe that Harry expected the fae he killed at the party to survive in some form, though perhaps weakened? Or did Harry realize he was destroying those he shattered (which, I realize, is sort of a strange question to ask since he turned them to ice and shattered them...but there are different rules for creatures of the Nevernever).
peregrine:
I don't think Harry expects the rank and file sidhe to be immortal. Hell, he didn't even think there was anything especially special about when he had Aurora killed, other than the general difficulty of trying to kill a creature with that much power.
Sully:
Aurora was killed at a special conjunction, wasn't she? That's why she was vulnerable.
Yeah, I'd like some clarification on this sort of thing. Wamps can be killed, but do they die of old age? If so, what is their natural lifespan? Same questions for the Reds and the Blacks. What about demons(are they just Fae, or something different?)?
When a changeling chooses Fae, does that create a mantle? Do all Fae have a mantle, or do mantles generally only exist for specific roles? Do all Fae eventually reform(if not killed in auspicious days and places) when killed, or just the ones with mantles? Does the location of the death matter, for being reformed(NN vs Earth).
If a Fae without a mantle exists, and it dies, does that power just disappear, or can nearby Fae gobble it up? Does it stick around, like buried treasure?
raidem:
--- Quote ---Aurora was killed at a special conjunction, wasn't she? That's why she was vulnerable.
--- End quote ---
When the Queens bring out the Stone Table, everyone becomes vulnerable including the Queens.
What we didn't see in Summer Knight that we did see in Cold Days is the actual mantle jumping from Aurora to Lily, or in the case of CD from Lily to Sarissa.
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