McAnally's (The Community Pub) > Author Craft
Fanfiction - Good or Evil?
Qualapec:
--- Quote ---Don't blame the messenger, but under copyright law it is indeed stealing. Most commercial publishers, including Jim Butcher's, have clauses in their contracts requiring the author to defend the infringement of copyright of their works, or the author can get sued by the publisher. That's why you'll never see Mr. Butcher hanging around any fic sites, or allowing anyone to upload possible plot ideas here. If he actually takes notice of any fanfic in the Dresdenverse, he would be legally required to fire up the lawyers and start sending out "cease and desist" letters, which can get kind of expensive. More trouble and expense than it's worth to start going after some penniless teenager, but still that's the fact. I seen to recall Iago had a thread about this around here somewhere.
Meanwhile, as I said, it's perfectly fine to write fanfic for your own amusement, for practice, or to share with friends for critique of your writing skills. It's also cool to write parody, and that's something you actually can publish (one of my favorites is Bored Of The Rings, by the staff of The Harvard Lampoon).
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Why? That doesn't make any sense. Shouldn't it be the author's (the holder of the copyright) choice one what is or isn't a copyright violation of their work? Or at very least what they will or will not pursue? Especially in such a gray area as fanfic. In which it would be ridiculesly hard ass to go after said "violators".
Why would something like parody be okay when fanfic wouldn't? It seems parody does more damage to the original work than fanfic would. Fanfic could even bring new people into the fandom if the story is well written and somebody really likes it. That ends up giving more money to the copyright holder than parody, which could actively discourage people from giving their money to buy it.
~She-Wolf
Jan1228:
--- Quote from: BolshevikMuppet on May 28, 2007, 12:21:27 AM ---No, I don't, but I'm now damn tempted to write some. I just can't figure who. Thomas and someone. But who? Like......hmm. -Ponders.- Gimme a few days; I'll get back to ya. -wink-
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;D -wink- Will be waiting -wink- PM me when you do!!
how'bout Thomas/any male on the SI staff/Marcone/Harry/Michael/anyone from Forever Knight and Bloodties
hows that for starters. -wink-
--- Quote from: Yeratel on May 27, 2007, 11:22:00 PM ---
Just out of curiosity I went over to www.fanfiction.net to see what was out there from the Dresdenverse. There are 80 some odd (some very odd) Dresden files stories out there, most based on the characters as written in the TV show (evidently lots of Bob fans out there). In contrast, there are about a quarter of a million Harry Potter tales, which mostly seem to be concerned with who's snogging who.
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Thanks for the link Yeratel - heading over there now.....
JamiSings:
--- Quote from: Yeratel on May 27, 2007, 11:22:00 PM ---In contrast, there are about a quarter of a million Harry Potter tales, which mostly seem to be concerned with who's snogging who.
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Some of those are mine! But no snogging - I just wanted to write myself into the story. (Yes, I do Mary Sues. I don't care if it upsets people. Heck, one of my most popular stories over there is "Star Trek: The Mary Sue.")
First off, let me say, I absolutely abhor my writing. I think I suck massively. But sometimes a story gets stuck in my head and I have no choice but to write it to get it out. Sometimes it's an original story. Sometimes it's a fan fiction. For instance, I really, really, REALLY hate the relationship between X-Men characters Gambit and Rogue. I despise her because she's such trash and does nothing but whine. I think she's just about the worse character in all of Marveldom. So I wrote Betrayal & Rebirth to give Gambit a woman worthy of him and to kill off that two bit tramp. (And to me she is a tramp. She throws herself at anything male - and I'm of the belief "If it quacks like a duck, smells like a duck, and looks like a duck, it sure ain't a quail!" Rogue looks like a tramp, acts like a tramp, talks like a tramp - therefore, she's a tramp. And I'm not so sure she's not one of the bad guys.)
Sometimes, I just can't help myself.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: firegazer on May 28, 2007, 04:35:31 AM ---I think the problem is that you misread that quote - I was talking about a fanfiction story, not the original story - naturally, that's worth exactly what was paid for it. The reason a fanfiction story is worth less than nothing is that you make no money off it, and also invest quite a bit of time and effort into it.
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You're tangentially setting off a twitch of mine here, though I realise it's not the main point of your post.
Original fiction made available for free by published authors has been shown to be good for sales in the same way that libraries and second-hand bookstores are. Charlie Stross has talked about this working for him at length. So has Cory Doctorow. So have several writers associated with the whole Baen Universe thing. There are people out there who will provide hard numbers for you on how once you have some level of name recognition as a published author, making stuff available for free boosts that recognition in hard sales figures. "The original story being worth exactly what was paid for it" is in some cases provably wrong.
firegazer:
--- Quote ---Don't blame the messenger, but under copyright law it is indeed stealing. Most commercial publishers, including Jim Butcher's, have clauses in their contracts requiring the author to defend the infringement of copyright of their works, or the author can get sued by the publisher.
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Actually, these days, copyright is very hard to lose period, and 'defending infringement of copyright' is only incredibly rarely the case. We have Disney to thank for that, probably, though I'd like to add that the Blackberry case was the most stupid and farfetched example of not defending copyright and still winning out in the end. I've been looking around to educate myself a bit more about the legal terms, in spite of my own ethical views on the matter, and have found that most fanfiction defenses try "Fair Use", though not all. The terms considered under fair use by a judge include, but are not limited to or absolutely required:
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes
Unclear here. Fanfiction is not for profit, and it certainly isn't commercial, but saying it's educational would be pushing it unless you were asked to write a 'what happens next' English assignment.
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work
At my best understanding (and obviously, I can be wrong) this is usually more enforced with tangible products and designs than with 'ideas'. There have been some very stupid exceptions, most notably with the Blackberry case.
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole
Fanfiction literally uses absolutely none of the original manuscript, except for names and places. If we're talking figuratively, someone's going to have to have fun legally defining it. I'm certainly not going to attempt it myself.
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
I couldn't tell you whether there's a professional study that's been done to gauge the effects of fanfiction on market value, but in every bit of my own personal experience, I must say that it can only be a positive thing for someone's works (as a whole, not a single, specified fanfic).
There are problems with the fair use defense, especially as fanfiction isn't all parody, and as most of it is not for any nonprofit organization or for schooling. But using a more ethical thought, instead of a legal one, fair use does seem to sum up exactly why we have copyright laws - the reasons behind their existence. Almost everything there leads me to believe that a court would absolve a peniless fanfiction writer under fair use. Again, I may be missing something, and again, people can always surprise you. We all know how wishy-washy the Supreme Court can be about free speech (or we should, if we took our government courses), and a detrimental ruling wouldn't necessarily surprise me if it ever reached them. I do know that lesser courts have ruled both in favor and against fanfiction, at times, but that the 'against' rulings have mostly been in very obviously stupid cases (such as, "I'm going to publish my sequel to this author's novel because mine is BETTER!" - yes, this was an actual case, and the stupid woman lost it, as she should have).
I'm afraid this is a very tenuous argument for my usual standards right now, but I'm currently exhausted and sunburned, and I haven't had near enough time to get you some links and citations, etc. I'd appreciate if you'd gently correct any glaring errors that you catch, and respond as best you can.
--- Quote ---To Firegazer, I apologize if my comments seemed judgmental, I did not intend them to be. After reading all of your comments and other postings, I am coming to realize that I am not understanding the communities created around these fanfic sites. I am 'hearing' you say that it is a place where you may share your ideas, that you do not make money from the sites and that it is a place where you can improve your craft.
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Oh, I'm almost certain that I overreacted, reading it back over again, and I'll sheepishly apologize for that. It's a very strange thing to be having a polite debate about this after so long, and I honestly appreciate it. I'd absolutely be willing to keep talking with you about things outside here, so I can stop taking up everyone's venting space. :)
--- Quote ---There are people out there who will provide hard numbers for you on how once you have some level of name recognition as a published author, making stuff available for free boosts that recognition in hard sales figures. "The original story being worth exactly what was paid for it" is in some cases provably wrong.
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I actually did not know that at all! I find it very interesting and somewhat heartening, in fact. Thanks for sharing it!
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