The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Theory on the Identity of the Parasite [Spoilers up to SG]
Serack:
*Pulls up his chair and grabs some metaphorical popcorn* I'll start my commentary by generating it from impressions as I read, and individual thoughts will be separated by quotes of of what generated them, or be started with an ** to show that it is separated from the previous comment
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on July 19, 2013, 01:21:48 AM ---Being in the pseudo-angelic category, hence pretty tough, Lash should be able to resist Nemesis in a similar manner.
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Lash was wearing thinner and thinner at the seams over the course of White Night. I think she was severely weakened by her long struggle to try to overcome Harry's resistance plus by her identity crisis. As such, I'm not sure how much she would be able to fight this influence, although Jim has also drawn parallels between her and Harry, and if we draw them further, one would be that she would fight strongly vs outside influence.
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on July 19, 2013, 01:21:48 AM ---Lash shuts off all contact with Harry in order to protect him from herself.
--- End quote ---
The "WoJ on Lash's sacrifice" can be interpreted to strongly support this conjecture.
--- Quote ---Lash was apparently able to gain free will from harry, a mortal. Can mortals potentially grant free will to other supernaturals like vampires and faries?”
That’s… a spectacularly complicated question, really. :)
Lash didn’t gain free will, per se. Lash gained individuality, became a singular entity, self-motivated and distinct from the personality of Lasciel the Fallen. That personality was strongly influenced by Dresden, who believes very strongly in individual choice and responsibility, but doesn’t necessarily equate to free will in the sense of what mortals possess.
You might note that Lash essentially committed suicide with her “free will.” A choice which rather strongly resembles another choice a few books later in the series.
--- End quote ---
When Jim said that, I didn't bother to ask the question, "Why would Lash consider herself a monster that needs to be naturalized to protect those she loves?" This unasked question is answered very neatly by your theory thus far.
**I like your analysis of the timings of the known parasite induced headaches in CD. I don't necessarily think they should be so directly tied to Nemesis' attempts to battle against Mab so much as the attempt to subsume the entire mortal reality (+ it's associated NN), but the battle against Mab is a good starting perspective.
**Your analysis of the "deal" between the Parasite and Mab/Demonreach does a good job of answering a lot of questions, but doesn't seem to quite address the Nemesis' motivations in the deal. If Nemesis has enough influence to be a danger to Harry, it should have some say in how that worked out too.
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on July 19, 2013, 01:21:48 AM ---Lash allows Harry to use her knowledge of various subjects.
--- End quote ---
Have you seen my theories tying together Lea's comments about the nature of Harry's recollection of the HHWB fight, and Lash's ability to have perfect recall of things Harry had seen? Here's a link to a recent post about it (and a later post that quoted the relevant quote from Lea).
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on July 19, 2013, 01:21:48 AM ---Considering Demonreach’s limited ability to communicate, I believe this is enough to qualify Lash as a spirit of intellect, like Bob. She is the first spirit of intellect that Demonreach associates with Harry, making Bob “ANOTHER ONE.”
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I'd like to take this moment to point out that as far as my research has shown, 2πr is the first person to propose this totally awesome theory that the Parasite/Lash is the other entity implied when Demonreach said "ANOTHER ONE"
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on July 19, 2013, 01:21:48 AM ---Furthermore, Lash taking the brunt of the psychic assault is similar to how Bob takes the brunt of the psychic assault from the LotON for Murphy in Changes.
--- End quote ---
I think those two psychic attacks were considerably different. One left observable (by Bob) damage to Harry's head, the other was compared to moves made by Vadderung and Mother Winter. However, this is a pretty interesting comparison that I think still helps your argument for Lash = the other Bob like spirit of intellect.
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on July 19, 2013, 01:21:48 AM ---It’s a fine idea, but with Lash as a buffer, things get better. Without Lash, Harry is too special for Nemesis to touch, but with Lash, Harry is the guy that has friends willing to sacrifice to help him. The second version of Harry is a much more interesting character for a reader.
--- End quote ---
Especially since one involves a hard won method of countering this major character hurdle, while the other involves something spiffy he was born with.
Ok, now for some cool thoughts that you managed to help stir up.
I keep coming back to the suspicion that Uriel is somehow responsible for the Parasite's growth. In some versions of this theory when Uriel "invested power" he did it to tweak Lash so that she could source Soulfire to Harry, but he also had a "long view" (Uriel's words!) where Lash would be able to help keep Harry's meat sack alive during a potential foray with the boarders of Death (Something I think had some profound and vital hidden goals that I outlined in another post today that I will quote below). And why stop there for potential benefits to reinvigorating Lash? Maybe he knew she was a good buffer vs Nemesis influence and he knew this power infusion into her would help with this.
This gets even more interesting if you wonder if he worked things out with the other side to allow for this stuff in the first place.
Now the aforementioned quote:
--- Quote from: Serack on July 19, 2013, 03:37:55 PM ---I believe that what Mab and Demonreach might have shared in interest with Uriel mentioned at the end of GS was much more meta than something that would focus on Molly.
I suspect that this has more to do with the things that Vadderung and the Gatekeeper hinted at about how his forays with the boarders of life and death marked his soul in a way that will bring the attention of more powerful beings that otherwise would have not even noticed his insignificance.
In otherwords, his adventures in GS fundamentally altered him somehow, and that change will serve these three's goals down the line. Which falls in line with some of the things Jim has said about his goals for Harry for the BAT. Jim wants things to be such that by the time the BAT comes about Harry will have developed into the solution of what goes down such that there would be no other way that the problems posed by the BAT could have been solved without him having gone through all the trials of the case files. (that's my interpretation, and that's a rather recent WoJ so I would probably have a lot of trouble finding it)
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Ok now to read the replies to this topic :) Awesome post 2πr. Lots of well thought out and expressed ideas and in an easy to absorb format. TYVM for klobbering it together
Serack:
--- Quote from: knnn on July 19, 2013, 02:50:28 PM ---2) Harry meets face to face with the very people who are best able to discover nemesis infection. The fact that Rashid/Mother Summer didn't comment about detecting any infection implies that it is either non-existant, very well hidden, or that they don't want Harry to know he is actually infected.
--- End quote ---
Or maybe they saw it, and observed that he was doing a bang up job of resisting it.
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on July 19, 2013, 07:03:48 PM ---For the headache with Morgan first showing up on Harry's doorstep, I categorize that as a mundane headache induced from stress. Nothing to do with the parasite.
--- End quote ---
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. This is almost certainly a "clue bat." You are essentially explaining away every headache before CD, and we have pretty good textual and WoJ evidence that the Parasite induced headaches go back before Changes.
--- Quote from: Second Aristh on July 19, 2013, 07:03:48 PM ---For the headache distracting Harry from Little Chicago, I'm with the Lady Duck. Mab sent that one, nothing to do with the parasite.
--- End quote ---
I like the theory that Mab was responsible for it, but I'm not quite convinced that the Parasite wasn't involved in its perpetration.
Second Aristh:
--- Quote from: Serack on July 20, 2013, 12:59:38 AM ---Lash was wearing thinner and thinner at the seams over the course of White Night. I think she was severely weakened by her long struggle to try to overcome Harry's resistance plus by her identity crisis. As such, I'm not sure how much she would be able to fight this influence, although Jim has also drawn parallels between her and Harry, and if we draw them further, one would be that she would fight strongly vs outside influence.
--- End quote ---
In WN, Harry only mentions in Ch.33 that Lash's hair is a little untidy (I agree probably from frustration at Harry and her identity crisis). The only other time she is mentioned to be unraveling is while she's fighting off the sending from Vittorio, when she's talking to Harry. My guess is with a physically (for lack of a better word) weakened Lash, Nemesis can't put too much strain on her. Otherwise, it'll kill her for real, and it loses its connection to Harry. The strain shown by Lash is important in the explanation of the headaches. Lash has to really push herself to resist the outsider; it's an even match.
--- Quote from: Serack on July 20, 2013, 12:59:38 AM ---The "WoJ on Lash's sacrifice" can be interpreted to strongly support this conjecture.
When Jim said that, I didn't bother to ask the question, "Why would Lash consider herself a monster that needs to be naturalized to protect those she loves?" This unasked question is answered very neatly by your theory thus far.
--- End quote ---
If I'm right, I could definitely see Jim cackling in his mind as he answered the question. He gets to mislead everyone without even stretching the truth.
--- Quote from: Serack on July 20, 2013, 12:59:38 AM ---**I like your analysis of the timings of the known parasite induced headaches in CD. I don't necessarily think they should be so directly tied to Nemesis' attempts to battle against Mab so much as the attempt to subsume the entire mortal reality (+ it's associated NN), but the battle against Mab is a good starting perspective.
--- End quote ---
In the grand scheme of things, yes Nemesis is after reality itself, but Mab is the person on the other side of the chessboard. Nemesis is going to focus 90% of its attention on her. I think eventually we'll see that the casefiles are mostly a series of moves and countermoves between Mab and Nemesis, with some moves from Uriel and Odin thrown in to help.
--- Quote from: Serack on July 20, 2013, 12:59:38 AM ---**Your analysis of the "deal" between the Parasite and Mab/Demonreach does a good job of answering a lot of questions, but doesn't seem to quite address the Nemesis' motivations in the deal. If Nemesis has enough influence to be a danger to Harry, it should have some say in how that worked out too.
--- End quote ---
In my mind, Nemesis was left out of the deal for spite on Mab's part. It may also be the reason why it had to be Mab helping Harry and not trading off with Lea every so often (she's Nemesis free now and trustworthy to leave Harry with). Someone tough enough to resist Nemesis was required if Lash was going to get to be in the drivers seat for a while. One of the things that kind of bothered me about the earring in the SG reading was how easily it shut down the headaches when Demonreach took an hour to quiet the last one. My guess right now is that Demonreach was fighting against Nemesis taking control of Lash, while the earring keeps Lash from taking control of Harry (probably giving Lash a break in the process, it wouldn't matter if Nemesis took over her if she couldn't take over Harry).
Edit: Another thing just occurred to me. Mab let Harry hang out alone on the island for a year. That's a long time to keep him out of play, even if she needed the time squeeze to ramrod him into doing her will. If Nemesis might have had a chance to get to him, Mab may have been scared to use Harry until times were desperate, in addition to the parasite's deadline.
--- Quote from: Serack on July 20, 2013, 12:59:38 AM ---Have you seen my theories tying together Lea's comments about the nature of Harry's recollection of the HHWB fight, and Lash's ability to have perfect recall of things Harry had seen? Here's a link to a recent post about it (and a later post that quoted the relevant quote from Lea).
I'd like to take this moment to point out that as far as my research has shown, 2πr is the first person to propose this totally awesome theory that the Parasite/Lash is the other entity implied when Demonreach said "ANOTHER ONE"
--- End quote ---
I've seen that theory, and I like it. I was mostly referring to the stuff that Lash tells Harry that he didn't know beforehand like Sumerian, the hand flexing trick from PG, the ignoring pain mind trick from SmF, etc. Lash being able to access Harry's...celestial memory?(Serack, you should name whatever you want to call it) would be another link to Lash being a spirit of intellect. Both Bob and the Archive get their information from somewhere, perhaps they get access to browse certain portions of the celestial memory? It would help explain how they just get to know stuff without going around and learning it themselves. Also, look what I recently found looking up Lash being disheveled:
(click to show/hide)
--- Quote from: WN Ch.9 ---Technically, it hadn't actually changed, but Lasciel, who existed only as an entity of thought hanging around in my head, was able to create illusions of startling, even daunting clarity, even if I was the only one who could perceive them.
--- End quote ---
entity of thought sounds a lot like a spirit of intellect to me :)
--- Quote from: Serack on July 20, 2013, 12:59:38 AM ---I think those two psychic attacks were considerably different. One left observable (by Bob) damage to Harry's head, the other was compared to moves made by Vadderung and Mother Winter. However, this is a pretty interesting comparison that I think still helps your argument for Lash = the other Bob like spirit of intellect.
--- End quote ---
Only if the holes in Harry's head where the result of the psychic attack, and not the holes that Lash left herself when she pulled away from Harry's consciousness. Odin, Mama Winter, and Ferrovax used sheer will against Harry, but the LotON (and vampires in general) and Outsiders use a psychic attack.
--- Quote from: Serack on July 20, 2013, 12:59:38 AM ---Especially since one involves a hard won method of countering this major character hurdle, while the other involves something spiffy he was born with.
--- End quote ---
Yes, exactly.
--- Quote from: Serack on July 20, 2013, 12:59:38 AM ---Ok, now for some cool thoughts that you managed to help stir up.
I keep coming back to the suspicion that Uriel is somehow responsible for the Parasite's growth. In some versions of this theory when Uriel "invested power" he did it to tweak Lash so that she could source Soulfire to Harry, but he also had a "long view" (Uriel's words!) where Lash would be able to help keep Harry's meat sack alive during a potential foray with the boarders of Death (Something I think had some profound and vital hidden goals that I outlined in another post today that I will quote below). And why stop there for potential benefits to reinvigorating Lash? Maybe he knew she was a good buffer vs Nemesis influence and he knew this power infusion into her would help with this.
This gets even more interesting if you wonder if he worked things out with the other side to allow for this stuff in the first place.
Now the aforementioned quote:
Ok now to read the replies to this topic :) Awesome post 2πr. Lots of well thought out and expressed ideas and in an easy to absorb format. TYVM for klobbering it together
--- End quote ---
No problem. Writing it all out usually helps to solidify a theory in my mind and expose holes.
--- Quote from: Serack on July 20, 2013, 01:16:17 AM ---Or maybe they saw it, and observed that he was doing a bang up job of resisting it.
--- End quote ---
Maybe that. I'm a little worried about Rashid scanning Harry on the dock in TC. It wasn't like in CD where he wasn't looking for something in particular.
--- Quote from: Serack on July 20, 2013, 12:59:38 AM ---I'm going to have to disagree with you here. This is almost certainly a "clue bat." You are essentially explaining away every headache before CD, and we have pretty good textual and WoJ evidence that the Parasite induced headaches go back before Changes.
I like the theory that Mab was responsible for it, but I'm not quite convinced that the Parasite wasn't involved in its perpetration.
--- End quote ---
Going back and rereading the first part of TC, I take it back. I remembered the scene wrong. Harry had the severe headache before Morgan showed up. Right now, the theory can't explain it well. The only thing I can think of is Nemesis wanting Harry to not help Morgan, but that would require Nemesis to know what Peabody had done. I'm not ready to say that all the Nemesis infected can communicate with each other yet.
phoenixjustice:
O__O
Just...wow. One of the most well thought out theories I've heard yet and one I really agree with. I've been of the mind that Lash is the Parasite from the moment we've heard about the Parasite, but you put into words what I had been unable to yet. Great job! :D
Second Aristh:
So running with what Serack said about Uriel's favor not being just soulfire, but having to do with Lash instead, I got this idea.
Uriel chooses his favor to be reviving Lash from near death. Since she's a good angel shadow now, she can give Harry soulfire herself. Unfortunately by reviving Lash, Uriel gives Nemesis an opening through her following my theory. It helps to explain the timetables for the headaches really. Lash isn't strong enough to take over Harry between WN and her revival in SmF so Nemesis doesn't bother trying to control her. Once she's revived, Nemesis gains interest again, and the headaches start. That way, we can interpret the pre-finding-Morgan-at-the-door headache in TC to be a cluebat for Nemesis!Lash being in play again.
(click to show/hide)
--- Quote from: TC Ch.1 ---The summer sun was busy broiling the asphalt from Chicago’s streets, the agony in my head had kept me horizontal for half a day, and some idiot was pounding on my apartment door.
I answered it and Morgan, half his face covered in blood, gasped, “The Wardens are coming. Hide me. Please.”
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: TC Ch.1 ---He started cleaning up everything he’d set out during the improvised surgery. “So. How are the headaches?”
They’d been a problem, the past several months—increasingly painful migraines. “Fine,” I told him.
--- End quote ---
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