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Comments thread for "The Laws of Magic: Part 4 of 8"

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JonnyNapalm:
So... as an avid gamer and BIG fan of everything Jim Butcher I was compelled to look into this thread and on the sites of the RPG... And something came to mind.

Can you Violate someone's mind if they ask you in?  At least as the laws put it?  I know that SOME Wardens would say that entering anothers mind, willing or no, puts you on that path... but consider if someone has a habit or something that they know is hurting/killing them and ASKS the wizard for help. 

Would it be a violation if they knew this was something you were capable of and asked for your assistance?  I know intent is a major thing and from the description of certain things in Dead Beat it would still have major problems.  (click to show/hide)On the other hand, Molly did force her will on 2 people when she did it... instead of asking to be allowed to help... And there is other background to suggest other reasons for the "wounds" to look as they did.

And if the invitation thing applies... it would suggest the possibility of a means of training mental defenses.  Seeing as critters from the Nevernever can and will violate ones mind... and pushing/fighting them till they're out seems to be the primary means of defense.

Take the previous example of a cabal of younger wizards learning the tricks of the trade hearing about someone who's will was co-opted til a warden came to deal with the warlock/sorcerer.  Taking a look at the laws they say "Hey... if we practice with each other on pushing or keeping each other out for a very specific purpose... we might be able to develop techniques to help against that."  And, if we say they all agree to the terms they set out and stick by them for the purpose of this training they've come up with...
One could ARGUE that they held up the terms of the law while practicing a defense against it.   Granted... discovery that they'd done so would likely get them killed by the old guard Wardens... but most kids are convinced of their immortality anyway.

Just some thoughts to ponder and argue.  :)

mikeryan:
The voluntarily aspect is interesting. I could see other advantages to it as well. If a wizard made a living as a head shrinker, there might be some clients who would be willing to submit to a mind-probe so that the witch-doctor could find something to help them.

There's witness applications too. I see something and you don't. I try to describe it to you, but there might be a detail that I gloss over because I don't recognize the significance of it. If you read my mind, you might catch some of those details.

Or a wizard is in a coma after some kind of attack. A mind probe might tell you what attacked him and why.

Another thought:

WN spoiler:

(click to show/hide)What about Harry's comm-link with Elaine? That had some elements that would apply to this Law, but it sure seemed to be handy.

iago:

--- Quote from: mikeryan on June 29, 2007, 04:53:55 PM --- (click to show/hide)What about Harry's comm-link with Elaine? That had some elements that would apply to this Law, but it sure seemed to be handy.
--- End quote ---
But that's not reading someone's mind; that's sending a message.  No invasion is occurring here.

hollow49:
I have my suspicions that a voluntary invasion of ones mind is going to be banned as well, given that it's never been seen. The transmission of thought, however, should probably be permitted, though might require fairly stringent conditions -  WN spoiler.
(click to show/hide)When Harry sent a mental message to Elaine, he needed to use her True Name.Transmitting a thought or mental impression to another, as long as the other is not obliged to pick it up, is not going to violate the law, and might well be helpful in establishing details that can't easily be described. I suspect that it may leave the door open for mental attacks from the recipient though...

mikeryan:

--- Quote from: iago on June 29, 2007, 05:06:24 PM ---But that's not reading someone's mind; that's sending a message.  No invasion is occurring here.

--- End quote ---

My bad. I had thought he had picked up something that she hadn't actively transmitted to him.

In any event, I think transmissions can be every bit as invasive as reading. I find spam email invasive enough. But this has added problems. Without breaking that other law (about taking away someones will), you could drive them insane. Send them messages they think are from God. Or make them think that their dog is telling them to go out and kill people. The possibilities are endless.

Someone mentioned that knowing a True Name is required for a transmission (again going by WN). But that isn't really a defense for non-Wizards. Regular folk aren't that protective of their Names. You could pick up a bunch without really trying.

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