The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
Santa Claus is a Fae reference collection [CD Spoilers]
hank213:
--- Quote from: Arcane on December 31, 2012, 08:31:39 PM ---Here's a quote that might be relevant to Santa's true nature.
(click to show/hide)Note the operative word. He doesn't say to Harry that he is a being of Faerie, just that he made his home among them. That could suggest that while he dons a Faerie mantle, he is not necessarily of Faerie himself. A situation similar to Harry, in fact. Harry's a mortal with the Winter Knight Mantle. And Odin could be a god wearing (at least from Halloween to Christmas) the Winter King Mantle of Santa Claus.
--- End quote ---
(click to show/hide)That was kind of how I interpreted Odin/Kringle's statements. I imagined he started out as a godhead figure (Odin) but as the world changed and his followers diminished he adopted a new role as Kringle. Even though Kringle has been referred to previously as fae, Harry's understanding of the supernatural world and it's provinces have proven to be somewhat fallible over the course of the series. Under both guises he has been an associate of Winter, not necessarily under Winter's dominion. Perhaps he, as Odin, was once charged with keeping watch of the outer gates? It certainly would fit that the association of one keeper to another could continue as well. From the wiki on Odin:
--- Quote ---...is associated with war, battle, victory and death, but also wisdom, Shamanism, magic, poetry, prophecy, and the hunt.
--- End quote ---
All these seem to fit with the personality that we are being presented in the books.
123456789blaaa:
--- Quote from: Arcane on December 31, 2012, 08:31:39 PM ---Here's a quote that might be relevant to Santa's true nature.
Note the operative word. He doesn't say to Harry that he is a being of Faerie, just that he made his home among them. That could suggest that while he dons a Faerie mantle, he is not necessarily of Faerie himself. A situation similar to Harry, in fact. Harry's a mortal with the Winter Knight Mantle. And Odin could be a god wearing (at least from Halloween to Christmas) the Winter King Mantle of Santa Claus.
--- End quote ---
I see no reason why it isn't possible for a Fae being to not stay with other Fae. The only other way I can imagine Santa making himself more clear is by saying something like "surely you knew I live among my own kind!".
Really though, I would ordinarily say that both interpretations are equally possible but I think the WoJ's I posted make my interpretation much more likely.
--- Quote from: Orloth on December 31, 2012, 09:27:04 PM ---One thing that I think is getting in the way here is the Iron weakness. Are Fae weak to Iron because they are Fae? or is there something special about Iron that disrupts Ectoplasmic energies? Has it always been so? or is that one of the rules that has changed over time (like Wizard's spoiling milk)? ((Isn't Iron the most atomically stable of elements? That might have something to do with it.)) What is also important, to my mind, is what Iron does to Harry in CD. Whenever he gets iron under his skin, he stops being the Knight until it is removed.
We also know that many notable figures in the NeverNever were once Mortals who, after having accrued enough power and maybe a few worshipers, became something else. Maybe Iron is used as a leveler to cancel out some of that power, setting the individual back at something closer to mortal. To those who are no longer anything resembling Human, it can be lethal (like mixing a Cyborg and an EMP), but to those who have maintained some semblance of self over the years, it is much more like simply switching a business suit for lounge wear. Therefore, Kringle is who he is with the power he currently has, Vadderung is who is in when he is at home and can kick off his shoes. (To this end, I wouldn't be surprised if Dresden rigged up something similar so that he wouldn't have to deal with the WK urges on his off hours. Maybe just a thumbtack on the arm.)
--- End quote ---
Iron hurts Fae because they are Fae.
The Fae are mercurial beings of changing temperment. They are constantly changing and shifting. Iron on the other hand is a potent symbol of industrialism. We use it in large amounts of our devices. It is one of the most stable elements and one of the elements most closely tied with humanity. The Fae are beings of chaos while iron is an element of order. It carries tremendous symbolic power (and symbolism is closely tied to magic in the DFverse).
--- Quote from: hank213 on December 31, 2012, 09:53:15 PM ---That was kind of how I interpreted Odin/Kringle's statements. I imagined he started out as a godhead figure (Odin) but as the world changed and his followers diminished he adopted a new role as Kringle. Even though Kringle has been referred to previously as fae, Harry's understanding of the supernatural world and it's provinces have proven to be somewhat fallible over the course of the series. Under both guises he has been an associate of Winter, not necessarily under Winter's dominion. Perhaps he, as Odin, was once charged with keeping watch of the outer gates? It certainly would fit that the association of one keeper to another could continue as well. From the wiki on Odin: All these seem to fit with the personality that we are being presented in the books.
--- End quote ---
It's true that Harry is fallible when it comes to information about the Dresdenverse but Jim isn't and I have two quotes from him, the second of which flat out states that Santa is a Faerie.
hank213:
--- Quote from: 123456789blaaa on December 31, 2012, 10:07:33 PM ---I see no reason why it isn't possible for a Fae being to not stay with other Fae. The only other way I can imagine Santa making himself more clear is by saying something like "surely you knew I live among my own kind!".
Really though, I would ordinarily say that both interpretations are equally possible but I think the WoJ's I posted make my interpretation much more likely.
Iron hurts Fae because they are Fae.
The Fae are mercurial beings of changing temperment. They are constantly changing and shifting. Iron on the other hand is a potent symbol of industrialism. We use it in large amounts of our devices. It is one of the most stable elements and one of the elements most closely tied with humanity. The Fae are beings of chaos while iron is an element of order. It carries tremendous symbolic power (and symbolism is closely tied to magic in the DFverse).
It's true that Harry is fallible when it comes to information about the Dresdenverse but Jim isn't and I have two quotes from him, the second of which flat out states that Santa is a Faerie.
--- End quote ---
Drat! Missed the WoJ confirmations. So what about a wyldfae that rose to godhood? I wonder if the same rules (extreme iron allergy etc) would apply? We've seen Toot grow in stature physically and presumably metaphysically since interacting regularly with Harry. Suppose a wyldfae becomes a leader to a group of mortals? Surely that would have an impact on his power. Then after a couple centuries as a god, he semi-retires and puts on the Kringle guise for a few months a year. Possible?
123456789blaaa:
--- Quote from: hank213 on December 31, 2012, 10:19:09 PM ---Drat! Missed the WoJ confirmations. So what about a wyldfae that rose to godhood? I wonder if the same rules (extreme iron allergy etc) would apply? We've seen Toot grow in stature physically and presumably metaphysically since interacting regularly with Harry. Suppose a wyldfae becomes a leader to a group of mortals? Surely that would have an impact on his power. Then after a couple centuries as a god, he semi-retires and puts on the Kringle guise for a few months a year. Possible?
--- End quote ---
I don't think Fae can become gods normally. They could probably take on the Mantle of a god sure but actually permanently turning into a god? Eeeh.
Of course since we don't really have an exact definition for what a god is in the Dresdenverse we really can't debate about it all that well...
We don't actually know that mortal belief causes gods to grow in power. It's very ambiguous. We do know that gods are tied to the world by mortal belief though.
I think that if a wyldfae became the leader of a group of mortals it would either keep growing or stop growing (since it probably isn't taking many risks at that point). It would probably still stay a Fae even if the group started to worship it.
Ms Duck:
--- Quote from: 123456789blaaa on December 31, 2012, 10:33:22 PM --- (click to show/hide)I don't think Fae can become gods normally. They could probably take on the Mantle of a god sure but actually permanently turning into a god? Eeeh.
Of course since we don't really have an exact definition for what a god is in the Dresdenverse we really can't debate about it all that well...
We don't actually know that mortal belief causes gods to grow in power. It's very ambiguous. We do know that gods are tied to the world by mortal belief though.
I think that if a wyldfae became the leader of a group of mortals it would either keep growing or stop growing (since it probably isn't taking many risks at that point). It would probably still stay a Fae even if the group started to worship it.
--- End quote ---
(click to show/hide)fae/sidhe/ have ben worshipped as gods before. some are now. last i checked, there were about 400,000 pagans on the planet. Mab (under her various names) has real life worshippers, in the real world, right now. so does the erlking.
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