The Dresden Files > DF Reference Collection
[CD spoilers] Mother Winter, the Blackstaff, Death and the Raven Banner
kalinowt:
Just noticed while re-reading Dead Beat that Grevane's staff in the final Darkhollow scene is the exact same description as Ebenezer's (pg 408 in soft cover edition just after Ramirez screams "Look! Look there!") Probably just a coincidence, but interesting. Any speculations?
Rasins:
--- Quote from: jyn8462 on December 07, 2012, 10:24:31 PM ---I don't think MS is Death, not really she might be part of the aspect of death for mortals, or she could be a goddess (or as near as a pure force of nature can be) of death like the Fate was, but I'm not convinced she's Death. I mean if she was wouldn't she have to move around a lot? She lost her walking stick but that hasn't harmed her purpose at all, nor limited her from it.
Though a fun fact the stories (IIRC) of the fates in Norse Myth were they were all blind and the three of them shared one eye given/taken/bargained from Odin. Which would be another link to winter for Odin. He and MS could have had a fight and well....cleaver...though you'd think it would be on display somewhere in the cottage...
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I believe that, like Mab not having to do anything directly to make winter come, death doesn't have to go everywhere for "normal" deaths. But when special deaths occur, she may need to move about.
Here's a thought. The BAT is kicked off by giving MW her walking stick back and now death is walking the land, procuring a horse, and dun-dun-dun ... end of the world.
the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh:
--- Quote from: Elegast on December 07, 2012, 10:01:15 PM ---Possible, but I don't think so: Rashid was already alive (he took down the mad Arab around 700 AD) when the WC stole the Blackstaff (1065 AD).
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What's the reference for that latter date ? Titania not having spoken to Mab since before the Battle of Hastings (1066) might well connect, there.
wyltok:
--- Quote from: the neurovore of Zur-En-Aargh on December 21, 2012, 05:34:25 PM ---What's the reference for that latter date ? Titania not having spoken to Mab since before the Battle of Hastings (1066) might well connect, there.
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The reference is a WoJ where someone asks about the staff and Jim says to look for info in that time and a particular place (Ireland, I think it was?).
Anthony:
--- Quote from: jyn8462 on December 07, 2012, 10:24:31 PM ---I don't think MS is Death, not really she might be part of the aspect of death for mortals, or she could be a goddess (or as near as a pure force of nature can be) of death like the Fate was, but I'm not convinced she's Death.
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The Fae are (at least so far) based on the fae legends and Celtic/Germanic legends. So far, Jim Butcher tried to keep gods being gods and Fae/fairies/monsters/supernatural beings being monsters. The Four Horseman are more Christian/abrahamic in origin. So I would rule out that possibility. So If I had to guess we will have to search for a legendary character who is most fitting for the Mother(s). And the one that seems to be most fitting is Frau Holle (it is even believed that the European word Hell (and different variations in different western languages) is derived from this source). Here are some parts of what Wikipedia says about her:
--- Quote ---In Germanic folklore as established by Jacob Grimm,[1] Frau Holda or Holle is the supernatural matron of spinning, childbirth and domestic animals, and is also associated with winter, witches and the Wild Hunt.
Spinning
Frau Holda is matron of all of women's domestic chores, but none so much as spinning, an activity with strong magical connotations and links to the other world
Winter
While governing domestic chores, Holda is also strongly associated with the outside wilderness, wild animals and places remote from man. Frau Holda's festival is in the middle of winter, the time when humans retreat indoors from the cold; it may be of significance that the Twelve Days of Christmas were originally the Zwölften ("the Twelve"), which like the same period in the Celtic calendar were an intercalary period during which the dead were thought to roam abroad.[6] Holda seems to personify the weather that transforms the land, for when it snows, it is said that Holda is shaking out her feather pillows; fog is smoke from her fire, and thunder is heard when she reels her flax. Holda traditionally appears in either of two forms: that of a snaggle-toothed, crooked-nosed old woman, or a shining youthful maiden clothed in white. As the maiden in white, her garments resemble the gleaming white of a fresh mantle of snow.
Protectress of children
While Holda is generally described as unmarried, and has no children of her own, she is the protectress of children, the kind spirit who would rock a child's cradle when its nurse fell asleep. She is said to own a sacred pool, through which the souls of newborn children enter the world
As Water-Holda
Many pools, wells or fountains are associated with the water-holda (roughly translated) throughout Germany. She haunts lakes and fountains and is seen as a fair White Lady bathing in the water and disappearing, a trait in which she resembles Nerthus. Like Nerthus, she too drives about in a wagon, sometimes requiring the help of a peasant to repair it. When he carves a new linchpin for her, she pays him with the cast-off wood chips which turn into gold if he is wise enough to take them. Young women would sometimes bathe in the icy Alpine pools in the hopes of becoming healthy fertile mothers.
Leader of the Wild Hunt
In German legend, Holda held her court within the Hörselberg, and from this mountain would issue the Wild Hunt, with her at its head. The faithful Eckhart was said to sit at the base of the mountain warning travellers to return whence they came; he also rode ahead of the Wild Hunt warning people to seek shelter from the coming storm. While Holda in northern Germany is described as leading a procession of the dead, her close counterpart in southern Germany, Perchta, is described as being surrounded by the souls of unborn children, or children who died before they were baptised. This points to Holda's dual role as protectress of souls both entering and leaving this world.
Matron of witches
Holda's connection to the spirit world through the magic of spinning and weaving has associated her with witchcraft in Catholic German folklore. She was considered to ride with witches on distaffs, which closely resemble the brooms that witches are thought to ride. Likewise, Holda was often identified with Diana in old church documents. As early as the beginning of the eleventh century she appears to have been known as the leader of women and female nocturnal spirits, which "in common parlance are called Hulden from Holda". These women would leave their houses in spirit, going "out through closed doors in the silence of the night, leaving their sleeping husbands behind". They would travel vast distances through the sky, to great feasts, or to battles amongst the clouds
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I am sure Mother Winter is Frau Holle...
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